A very difficult to believe news article from one of my least fav news sources but still iám choosing to share due to the deep cultural divide this exemplifies in a country known for it's politically correct stance and a seemingly balanced view of the world order.Not meant to be an attempt at bringing out the vices of the west :) but to be used for debating the rights of women in today's world only.
London: About 100,000 women in Britain have undergone female genital mutilations, with some medics in the country offering to carry out the illegal procedure on girls as young as 10, it has been reported.
The Sunday Times' investigators claim to have secretly filmed a doctor, dentist and alternative medicine practitioner who were allegedly willing to perform circumcisions or arrange for the operation to be carried out.
The practice, involving the surgical removal of external genitalia and in some cases the stitching of the vaginal opening, is illegal in Britain. It can invite up to 14-year-imprisonment, the Daily Mail reported.
It is also against the law to arrange female genital mutilation (FGM).
Known as "cutting", the procedure is traditionally carried out for cultural reasons and in Africa and with large numbers of immigration from countries like Sudan, Somalia and Ethiopia, it is becoming more common in Britain.
It is believed to be proof of a girl's "purity" when she marries. The victims, however, often suffer in silence and are rarely given anaesthetic.
Research suggests anually up to 6,000 girls in London are at a risk of the potentially fatal procedure, and over 22,000 in Britain as a whole.
Click here to learn more.
NM, exactly. When people in the US start going off on, "Why don't they learn English, our parents/grandparents did" I always remind them that it was their children, not the immigrants, that assimilated.
I know there are Brit. But I wouldn't know how to physically punish them. Sadly they are probably already circumcised and repeating the crime done to them. :(
Mandi, many do, sadly.
This is what baffles me...they want to leave their country, come to another one and still live as if they are in the old country....But then again, this happened in the US too at the time when all the Europeans came in. They lived according to the rules of the old country. It took several generations to remedy that.
I agree.. The next generation will be different..
Miss Mimi: I am sure there are female backstreet doctors performing such operations too...
Education will work, but education takes time to change things that are entrenched in a culture. I think firmer punishments are also needed.
Mandi - I highly doubt that. Education alone is not going to stop these practices. It's like female infanticide in some parts of India where education can do only so much.
BE, I know that this is unsatisfying, but time will provide the answer. These women in the UK will NOT subject their daughters.
Saying that there are Christian groups in Africa that practice FGM only underscores the idea that it is cultural, not religious. And I am still trying to pick my jaw up off the floor after reading Qaradawi's quote.
Education Brit...and perhaps cutting the willies off every man who performs FGM.
So, what is the answer ?
Nasty stuff. Seriously, WTF is wrong with people????
And then , when it gets discussed, all that happens is that it gets derailed by people with agendas.
But then again, this is what usually happens, isn't it?
I agree that posting negative comments is not always the way to go, but when it comes to FGM I feel that there aren't a lot of positive things to post. I feel that a few years ago it was a hot button issue everywhere (including the ME) but that the issue has all but disappeared. Perhaps because so few women & men are willing to speak out against it, but rather suffer in silence. I recently posted an article about how 80% of Emirati women have had Type 1 FGM. 80%! and the Emirati's are far from uneducated backwoods tribes. These are women with college degrees, agreeing to this!
It deeply saddens me that this is still happening in this day and age, when people have been trying to stop it for almost 100 years!
Miss Mimi said Christian missionaries do...
Christian missionaries do speak against it MN:
So do Muslim Scholars. The only problem is only people who are genuinely interested in helping those poor gals out would go the extra mile by digging deeper for anything positive to use it as a building base for their awarness mission . And they are very few on this thread.
How can Yosuf al qarawdi be a respected Islamic scholar when he recommends mutilating God's creation? He should be arrested for supporting violence against women
I'm aware of that, does that mean I can't post a shocking statement by a well known and respected Islamic scholar. If I'd found something equally disturbing from a well known and respected Christian scholar I would have posted it as well.
Hmmm, In Cairo, a group of highly ranking Scholars did in fact launch and awareness conference. Some of the most prominent and high-ranking Muslim theologians have agreed that the practice of female genital mutilation is irreconcilable with Islam.
Christian missionaries do speak against it MN:
Anika Rahman and Nahid Toubia write that attempts in the early 20th century by colonial administrators to halt FGM succeeded only in provoking local anger. In Kenya, Christian missionaries in the 1920s and 1930s forbade their adherents from practising it—in part because of the medical consequences, but also because the accompanying rituals were seen as highly sexualized—and as a result it became a focal point of the independence movement among the Kikuyu, the country's main ethnic group. One American missionary, Hilda Stump, was murdered in January 1930 after speaking out against it. Lynn M. Thomas, the American historian, writes that the period 1929–1931 became what is known in Kenyan historiography as the female circumcision controversy. Protestant missionaries campaigning against it tried to gain support from humanitarian and women's rights groups in London, where the issue was raised in the House of Commons, and in Kenya itself a person's stance toward FGM became a test of loyalty, either to the Christian churches or to the Kikuyu Central Association
If both stood before a court of law they 'd be equality convicted.
Silence is compliance
Better silence than telling people to go and do it.
Silence is compliance
MN, please post a quote from a Christian ministry or popular scholar in which they say:
"I personally support this under the current circumstances in the modern world. Anyone who thinks that circumcision is the best way to protect his daughters should do it," he wrote, adding, "The moderate opinion is in favor of practicing circumcision to reduce temptation."
Miss Mimi: funny how you assume things miss Mimi.
Yes I know it’s nothing to do with Islam. Or is it? I dunoo
Just like every other post you make on Ql (: they all have nothing to do with Islam yet somehow they all seem to spew out negativity and pessimism of varying degrees.
Anywayz back to the main topic on here.
Same thing could be said abt the ministries in Africa. Their silence is the reason why FGM is so rampant amongst the Christian tribes in Africa.
But of course that’s
Well that post is from an article I was reading, and sadly it is most prevalent amongst Islamic tribes. However, if you know anything about it, you know that it has nothing to do with Islam. Sadly, the reason I believe it is associated with Islam is that many Sunni scholars have been ambivalent about speaking out against it, including Mr. Qaradawi.
Guys lets keep religion out of this. Otherwise if I start pouring out my heart aout how much I hate the concept of religion;I would be in trouble :(
Yes which you never failed to make that clear in your previous posts
And the Muslim tribes MN.
PS - It's really inhumane.
Miss Mimi : True and specially the Christian African tribes.
How could someone deprive women the enjoyment of sex..?o_O
MN while it's practiced by a small miniority of tribes In South America it is incredibly prevalent in Africa and the Middle East:
Please someone tell me this is ain't for real....yeeeeee!
But on female circumcision, as opposed to genital mutilation believe it or not I've met women who have been circumcised in what they call the "right way", as kids, with anesthesia etc and they actually claim it makes their sex lives better than women who have not been, and not painful at all.In fact they say the surgery itself didn't hurt either! This was a shocking revelation to me since I only associated female circumcision with genital mutilation.
However the case mentioned in the OP sounds very much like mutilation as was the case of the model Iman. Apparently THIS is done so women will NOT enjoy sex hence remain "monogamous" which is plain grisly and criminal!
Mis MiMi: and why are we directing this topic to focus on one group/culture only?
Here are some facts Miss mimi may not know or delbier4taly tries to avoid.
Female Circumcision is wildly practiced all around the developing world and that includes South America, Africa East Asia and the Middle East.
The traditional cultural practice of FGM predates all religions.
There are Christian groups in Africa who practice FGM.
There are tribal scriptural and doctrinal documents existing within larger Christian Africans that not only condone the act of FGM but also describes exactly how it should be carried out.
Many African, Indian and East Asian tribes and scores o of the Latin populace in South America continue the practice as a matter of cultural tradition.
u have to have a strong heart. a little bit of sadism helps too ;)
anyway, i already highjacked the thread too much with my dentist bonanza. sorry OP.
It wasn't Naomi Campbell, it was Iman Mohamed Abdulmajid who is married to David Bowie it happened to her when she was a young girl and living in Somalai. It's barbaric and should be stopped!
So long guys... I got a plane to catch...
drsam - How can you do this dental thing to people. It's so cruel :)) and from your picture, you dont look cruel at all.
"Observe Yusuf al-Qaradawi, the popular cleric and longtime conservative TV host on Al Jazeera who developed a stunning penchant for the Arab Spring revolutions -- once they were under way, that is -- undoubtedly understanding that they would eliminate the tyrants who long tormented and oppressed both him and the Muslim Brotherhood movement from which he springs.
I could find you a host of crackpots sounding off on Woman the Insatiable Temptress, but I'm staying mainstream with Qaradawi, who commands a huge audience on and off the satellite channels. Although he says female genital mutilation (which he calls "circumcision," a common euphemism that tries to put the practice on a par with male circumcision) is not "obligatory," you will also find this priceless observation in one of his books: "I personally support this under the current circumstances in the modern world. Anyone who thinks that circumcision is the best way to protect his daughters should do it," he wrote, adding, "The moderate opinion is in favor of practicing circumcision to reduce temptation." So even among "moderates," girls' genitals are cut to ensure their desire is nipped in the bud -- pun fully intended. Qaradawi has since issued a fatwa against female genital mutilation, but it comes as no surprise that when Egypt banned the practice in 2008, some Muslim Brotherhood legislators opposed the law. And some still do -- including a prominent female parliamentarian, Azza al-Garf."
At least one HONEST doctor!
i do ask my patients before starting the dental procedure if they have written their will, said goodbye to their beloved ones , and if they said they final prayers!
i'm serious! :)
blistering - Their cool chairs are traps.
I’d like to point out that different societies/cultures have different understanding of the matters and consequently different ways of administrating of female circumcision. Which is still not OK!
For example while on the one hand there are milder forms of Female circumcision where only the clitoral hood is removed, in places like the middle East / India / and the far East and actually this form is the only actual circumcision in the sense of the word On the other hand you have cultures /societies like Sudan, Egypt Central Africa which practice a severe form of female circumcision which is basically removing the whole freakin thing! and that's just disgusting!
MN - I agree with you.But what I fail to understand is if a particular religion believes that God is the perfect creator and we should not meddle with His creation, then this practicce becomes unwanted religiously anyways. So why do you think these cultures practice and encourage such acts?
lol Bluebull... but they have cool chairs...
Blistering - uuuuffffff dont even mention those.I hate them since I was a kid. Reminds me of horror movies.
I love the tools the dentist carry.. drill, saw, pliers, nails, cement ... lol
PS - :)
Most of these are from immigrants--not being done in London so much. doing this in the UK carries a HEFTY punishment. and rightly so.
bluebull - Hahahaha.;)
PS - Didn't get you when you said - ..it's a different teeth though..
Dentists have the knowledge about teeth..it's a different teeth though..How could parents afford to see their duaghters in pain? it's not necessary..I don't give a damn about purity in this case.
Yep and that was before she ran away from the horrors of her life. It makes an interesting read blistering.
Naomi Campbell OMG...
the govt is very much involved
BG - These things happened behind closed doors secretely. I dont think any government can stop such occurences completely unless there is a complete change of hearts amongst people who practice these traditions.
yeah but still it happened
BG - But it's happening at the hands of people who are not originally from the most civilized part of the world. They would have done the same in their part of the world as well.
maybe because of the lips?
actually i m sad that it is happening in the most civilized part of the world
BG - Why lol? Aren't you sad at such cruelty?
lol 100,000 Female Genital Mutilation in UK!
MM - These practices seem unbelievable in today's world. I wonder what kind of parents wnat their daughters to undergo such inhumane procedure in the name of culture!
One of the star victims of this is the supermodel Naomi Campbell. I had read her story a long time ago.
Possibly because anesthesia is usually only accessible to anesthesiologists in the UK BB, so another doctor might not be able to get their hands on it, much less administer it safely.
And hey, it's just a woman right. They're like animals, they don't feel pain.
usually due to poverty of countries in which it is practised. there is a lot of disturbing literature on this which suggests that the procedure is performed by non-medical-ites such as barbers , mothers etc
But why is anesthesia not used? Is pain a part of proving ones purity???
Horrifying. What would a dentist know about a woman's vagina?
"traditionally carried out for cultural reasons". It's hard to break with traditions if you don't understand physics!
Its shocking that these immigrants would carry on such a barbaric practise. Even more shocking that there are medical professionals willing to do this.
Cover our daughters, lock them up at home, mutilate them and that is how to keep them safe.... I hope they answer to God for their crimes.