An editorial piece from the Daily Beast about the Myth of the stay at home mommy:
When Rosen said that Ann Romney had “never worked,” it was perfectly obvious that she was referring to the classic definition of work as something one does for pay: “the labor, task or duty that affords one his accustomed means of livelihood,” as Webster’s dictionary puts it. All mothers know that motherhood involves a lot of hard work, but let’s stop pretending that that’s the same as working for a living. It isn’t. When you’re a stay-at-home mom, somebody else is bringing home the paycheck.
Equally misleading was Mrs. Romney’s retort that her “career” was being a mother. Again, Webster’s defines “career” as “a field for or pursuit of a consecutive progressive achievement, especially in public, professional or business life,” and also as “a profession for which one undergoes special training and which is undertaken as a permanent calling.” Motherhood is many things, but as a matter of pure semantics, it’s not a career. It’s also not a “permanent calling,” since kids grow up.
Whether you’re a father with a stay-at-home wife, a working mother with a partner, or a single mother on her own, the buck stops with you if you’re providing the primary financial support for your family—and that responsibility is often terrifying. We all have our wide-awake-at-3-in-the-morning nights, and no doubt Mrs. Romney has endured her share. But her worries, however grave, have never included the ability to feed her kids or keep a roof over their heads—and those are problems that regularly torture countless American women.
For most of them, working for pay is a necessity, and staying home to raise their children is not an option, despite the constant blather about “choice.” Whether or not we want to do so—and many of us do—the majority of us work because we have to, and our children depend on us to bring in a reliable income. No one who has never shouldered that responsibility can ever really know what it’s like—how scary it is, how hard it is, and how lonely it can feel.
The self-appointed defenders of the American family love to exalt motherhood and extol the virtues of women who make the “sacrifice” of staying home with their children, as Peggy Noonan put it on Friday’s Morning Joe.
It’s long past time to acknowledge the heroic sacrifices of the working mothers who do everything that stay-at-home moms do, but who also provide the crucial financial contributions that enable their families to stay afloat, even when the dads drop dead, lose their jobs, run off with other women, or otherwise default on their parental obligations.
When it comes to motherhood, there’s no shortage of heroism or sacrifice no matter which role you play. But for all too many families, if mom didn’t bring home the bacon, there wouldn’t be any food on the table.
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I am just surprised that you people still take Flor seriously.....:P
How can Flor be so judgemental about miss mimi's life?..You don't know them or their day to day going's on..A personal attack is just out of order or that's what people lower themselves to when they have nothing better to say..Just because miss Mimi works does not mean she will miss out on the early years of her child..What works for one might not work for the other,but it works for them and thousands of other families where the woman is the breadwinner..I'm thankful i wasn't raised to believe i'm here to serve men..There is a big world out there and i want my child to experience it..Be open minded and no-judgemental or narrow minded and brainwashed..Miss Mimi you sound like a fantastic woman,your husband and child are lucky to have a strong working wife/mother to look up to :)
It's so nice that you're interested in my family life Flor. I'm sure that once my husband finishes his Degree he'll be eager to start work.
"Well, exactly. If you don't want to live with it as it is, keep your hands away from it. As simple as that."
Lol- I agree. She always tried to make me into some kind of Dudley-Do-Right or something. She knew what I was when she married me
whew...it was hot in here huh.
so let's just say tatang flor is of the school of thought that a woman was made from a man's rib as is written, and mm is from the school that the first man and woman came out fully formed from a bamboo tree a bird cracked open at the same time. equally. no one preceded the other. no one had to exist before the other.
i don't know about the creation stories of people from other cultures here (and i would love to know them), but the adam and eve creation story is from someone else's culture, not mine. i don't care if it's in the book my faith based its beliefs from, but i personally prefer the latter because it shows our ancient culture believes that both man and woman were created equally. until external factors bastardized our way of thinking.
I just hope she can sustain being the breadwinner while her "houseband" remains at home. One thing is for sure, he'll enjoy the early years of your child and that would be great for him. I just hope that the time comes when he would prefer to work than stay at home. Because if not, he himself is breaking your belief, MM, that is BOTH should be responsible for family's financial needs (as you wanted it to be, right, MM?).
positively. But still those illegal things are on discussion. When will you ever learn?
And that's not the topic of the discussion
Nothing like blowing your own trumpet!.. Lol..Think this has to be agree to disagree, cos it's never going to end
Well, exactly. If you don't want to live with it as it is, keep your hands away from it. As simple as that.
You are so right Nomerci- My wife tried for 30 years..I was a major project to her, her lifes work...lol.
"....the trouble is, some women think they can "tame" guys like you...pretty dumb,..."
So it is proven now that women want to change the character of her partner;
she is attracted towards men who are "nice to play with" and then they fall for these kind of people and then they try to change their personality.
If their personality changes for good after marriage then they become "BORING" and "UNATTRACTIVE" and no longer DESIRABLE and if they don't change then they are NOT FIT AS PARTNER.
So that means that men can never win against women because their parameters keep on changing....we are caught between devil and the deep sea...
Anyways women are dumb in this regard for playing with fire an thinking that their hands won't burn
Hmmmm, well, each to their own.
I think you are man to play with, not to marry.A friend of mine married a man like you, she came to regret it deeply.
Guys like you are fun, that's where it begins and ends...the trouble is, some women think they can "tame" guys like you...pretty dumb,IMHO.
I'm sure that quite a few women would be ready to "hook up" with a view to getting a house later on...
There's no such thing on a message board Tinkerbell
I know Nomerci...My wife has gone berserk on a few women over the years, I love it...One time she found a note on my windshield from a woman from work instructing me to meet her somewhere..I didn't see it, but my wife did the next day when we were out..It ruined the day, to say the least. I decided to marry my wife after she attacked another girl who was hittin on me. It felt so good to see her go wild like that. That, and seeing her put on her nurses outfit and go off to work one morning convinced me to make her my wife..I like housewives, nurses, teachers and flight attendants- In that order..I brought her a house and retired her in 83..
Hell hath no fury like a scorned woman
I haven't experienced that Nomerci, I think its because I genuinely cared about every woman I've ever been with..Its hard to hate a guy that genuinely cares about you, even if he's constantly making mistakes, screwing up, and giving into temptations
True Bull, but most men are not like you.
And women are not only scorned by men.
Well yes, that they can.
"Bull, how about a woman who has raised children AND worked" Nomerci
Oh thier all great Nomerci- I just prefer pampered housewives..Jobs suck the life out of people and I like to travel..2 weeks a year won't cut it for me, she has to be available to go at any time
Bull, I'm not so sure about that...Hell hath no fury like a scorned woman.......Although, things wouldn't be dragging along as they do now.
Lol Nomercie- Women are better than men..They're better in every way..Can you imagine if they ruled the world?
Bull, how about a woman who has raised children AND worked?
I want to make this perfectly clear..I don't think a woman must stay home and raise the kids, i'm just saying that I personaly find housewives more interesting than working women. Althought I did kind of fall in love with my femasle lawyer once, and a female district attorney that was trying to convict me..I thought my female eye doctor was just wonderful, and my mother became a real estate agent when I was a teenager. I just think a woman that has raised kids knows infinately more about life, love and realationships than a working woman ever could.
Who is anti male? From what I can see nobody is. It's just that some women think they are equal to men....oh, I know...the cheek!!!!!!!!!!!!!;):P
JC, and you're from the UK???
"But for all too many families, if mom didn’t bring home the bacon, there wouldn’t be any food on the table."
Without men, you wouldn't have the keyboard to type your Anti-Male feelings with.
BE...your last three posts must end this otherwise useless discussuion... just goes to show how mature is your thinking.
I wish it were a choice. If it were a choice to stay home and raise children we wouldn't see so many mothers here with children back in their home countries. It's very sad. In the US mothers do have to/choose to work, but usually don't have to move thousands of miles from their kids.
Brit, I'm not the one telling people that they are harming their child, and ignoring God's laws, by not being a stay at home Mom.
I agree with you. In your opinion it is the primary responsibility of both parents. Others may feel differently. As long as they are happy with their choice - so be it ...
Some ppl see Muslim as terrorist Americans as dumb etc etc doesnt make it right
And some men may see it as their's Brit. In my opinion it is the primary responsibility of BOTH parents.
Some women may see it as their "primary responsibility"...
That's all well and good Brit. But staying at home is not my, or any other woman's, primary responsibility.
YOu keep saying commenting about men and men / women and women relationships...they are called homosexuals. I don't see how homosexuals have to do with the roles of men and women in the family and rearing children???
You have brought it up more than once now and I am wondering why???
Staying at home may be boring for you, but not for others. At the end of the day, it is a choice we make to suit our selves..
Yes Max. Because mothers are supposed to stay home.
So a widow or orphan cant eat because the man/ breadwinner is not there? The orphan have to starve till mommy get marreid?
I am just stating a fact, right? And you are the one who uses the word, not me. When did I say it?
Why do you keep bring up homosexuals Flor1212????
LOL Prism. I didn't mean it ages the person, I meant that staying at home GETS old, as in boring, quickly.
MM...my point, staying at home not necessarily makes one get old FAST as was intended to be. In fact working in an stressful environment should make one grow old faster.
Now another one, 'No distinct responsibilities'...a man cannot breast feed a child, now can he. Guess, to discharge this responsibility women are even given time off from work.
As for contribution, what is there to contribute on something as simple as that a family would or should do what suits them the best...the people who argue otherwise arent going to feed the family or take care of it...end of the day whoever is part of the family has to take care of it...how they do it is entirely upto them. So anything beyond that is just unneccessary discussion to spend ones time when there is nothing better to do and I always have something better to do and also am short of time...:)
Oh God could he carry the child for 9 months!! That would be lovely. It would be fantastic if we could each carry one for 9 months!
And I'm not acting as a "man" Flor, I'm acting as a mother. I'm feeding, protecting and loving my child by providing the money needed to purchase food, a home and his education. The same as any mother and father does.
would like your second child be carried by your husband for nine months? Since you choose to function as a man (breadwinner), he might as well function as the woman, right? He's the stay-at-home father, right? Give him the function to bore a child, it will be good for you!
It is all about CHOICE. Man and woman can decide what is right for them, their child their family. There are no set rules, it is their CHOICE. That's what it is all about. Whether they believe in doctrine like Flor or Insanity do, or like Miss Mimi believe in equality.
Choice is the keyword.
And accepting / respecting the choices other people make.
equal to what? Equality is not the topic. Functionality and responsibility is the topic. Why do you think we have different physical attributes? Why do you think that you have your monthly periods and we have none? Etc etc? Why do you have the capability to bear a child and we are not?
If man created so many things (through inventions and in many ways) but of different functions, what more with God who created us, man and woman, not man and man. Not woman and woman, it's MAN and WOMAN.
Nope. No distinct responsibilities. They have the same responsibilities. How they choose to carry out those responsibilities is their decision.
And why wouldn't I be able to sustain being the breadwinner. Am I going to suddenly explode or something? LOL.
but you need to realize that they also have their INDIVIDUAL distinct responsibility for their family in the same way that a man have his duty to his wife and the wife to his husband.
Why do you think they were created differently if they they don't have specific function? TRUE, they have COMMON function but also true that they have individual function.
And since you choose to work and FEED your husband (which I believe is very much able, unless he's not), I just hope you sustain that. Good luck to your family.
"And here's another truth that I know you will not agree, WOMAN came from MAN and that woman was created for man, NOT the other way around."
So we are Gods gift to men! :) ...lucky you!
From Quran and Bible; Eve was said to be made from Adam's rib...therefore is part of man. Therefore called woMAN. Also as per creation...man was created in Eve's womb and therefore man also came from woman...and the creation cycle just keeps going on and on.
Point is...men and woman are equal and should be treated that way.
It is the primary responsibility of both parents to feed, cloth, educate and love their children. How they choose to do that is up to them.
I am not arguing with MM because I don't agree WOMEN SHOULD WORK. The point being argued about is, was it the primary duty of a married woman to be the breadwinner? I am not telling her NOT to work. What I am saying is her primary responsibility is to take care of her children and household. But if she chooses to be both a working woman and could still take care of her household, FINE, no argument about that.
But challenging the very reason of creation is what irritates me. But I know I have to just accept the reality that this woman is an Atheist and that's her belief.
Actually woman and man would have evolved simultaneously. They kind of need each other or the human race wouldn't have continued.
Also, I have a lovely son & a happy husband, thanks.
"...Amazing how books that were written by men, with male prophets and a male God will tell women to remain inferior to her husband. .."
Male God ? The Arabic word ‘Allah’ has no gender.
All prophets were male because of the requirement of the prophets who had to undergo severe hardships to spread the message of God.
This in no way diminishes the importance of women who were the mothers of these prophets...the wives of these prophets and played their part in spreading the message.
Lastly - Women are not inferior to men nor men are inferior to women both are equal (however both are not Identical).
Both have superiority in certain aspects of life however man is the breadwinner and the head of the household and a women by obeying her husband does not become inferior to him rather she is just obeying the command of God.
exception. So never argue with her.
Put this in record, MM, I PITY YOUR HUSBAND!
I just hope that when you have your own children, the situation change because you will never be a good teacher to your children for sure.
And here's another truth that I know you will not agree, WOMAN came from MAN and that woman was created for man, NOT the other way around.
What a contribution Prism!!! My grandmother was stay at home and died in her 70's of Alzheimers. Your point?
To each his own ...
LOL. The flying spaghetti monster COMMANDED me to laugh at you.
Amazing how books that were written by men, with male prophets and a male God will tell women to remain inferior to her husband. Shocking, I say, shocking.
"Staying home gets old FAST"
All my great grand mother grand mother who were stay at home moms lived plus 90 years and were much active than a 18 years boy of these days who lives on coke and pizza....:) I have seen my grand mother, just in case there is a doubt.
Saw something which was in contradiction to facts so chipped in a fact.
is why there is a prevalence of DIVORCE.
And may I know who is the "boss" in your house? Who makes decisions? I would suppose it's you! And everything you say should be the one to happens, because you are the "provider". What great decision can be done by a man who CAN NOT even provide for his family? Can he face his CREATOR and tell his accomplishment?
Of course, he won't because both of you chose to contradict HIS wishes. And I won't be surprise, BOTH of you don't believe (maybe even HIS existence). And for that, I feel sorry for you.
who don't know the nature of creation.
MM, your arrogance in front of God will not give you anything good, I'm sure of that. (And you even have the guts to challenge GOD about it?)
No one here said that woman CAN NOT work. The position was, IT IS NOT THE PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY of a woman to be the breadwinner. If she chooses to be of help (but in your case as the primary breadwinner), FINE, but the facts remains it is NOT your primary responsibility. The responsibility still fall on the shoulder of the man.
And we are NOT talking of YOU here, we are talking about MAN and WIFE responsibilities as COMMANDED!
I don't consider anyone superior to anyone else. A housewife isn't superior to a working mom, a working father isn't superior to a stay at home dad. Everyone needs to do whats right for them and their family and not be judged by others for their decision.
I only consider career women 'superior' if you want to say, to home makers if a woman chooses to stay home even the family can not be supported well enough with only her husbands income.
If the husband makes enough money for the family to live comfortably then fair enough if she chooses not to work and be a housewife.
Thats the point I was making about my husband...If he made plenty of money I would happily not work!!
Summary of discussion so far
WE Agree on following points:
1) Both can pursue their career aspirations
2) Both have to look after the home and children
3) Women who are compelled to work to provide for her family are to be commended
We disagree on following points
1) Primary role of man as breadwinner and women as home maker
2) Career women considered superior to home makers
Well I'm the primary breadwinner and my husband is the primary home maker for right now, so I guess those responsibilities did change.
"...Well thats where our beliefs differ, because I don't believe God has given women the sole responsibility of housework and parenting.."
Again, primary does not mean Sole. Man is the primary breadwinner and women the primary home maker. In normal circumstances Both can share each others responsibilities as long as the primary responsibility does not change.
Eh I know...when did I say you meant me and my husband???
I cook meals for my husband and child (well he just takes a bottle now...) and I clean the house (with my husbands help) and I still work, why do I need to be a stay at home mother to do this stuff?
If a woman is selling pizzas to provide for her family than I have nothing but respect for her.
If a woman does nothing but sit at home and takes 4 hours to do what I can do in half an hour, than I don't really have much respect for her no.
Well thats where our beliefs differ, because I don't believe God has given women the sole responsibility of housework and parenting.As much as I respect other peoples opinions and views doesn't mean I agree with them. I have said that the view that women should stay in the home and can 'help' with the financial side of things if she wants, is outdated. Some women are the breadwinner of the family and some make even more money than their husbands AND can be amazing mothers.
It would be nice not to have to work....however my husband would need to make a lot of money to keep me from being bored!
by "Imagine both of you" I meant both miss Mimi and Miss Teacher
Not you and yr husband.. LoL
"...I'll go to work and feel good about myself AND be busy and productive...."
So women who are working at home are unproductive and free ??
That is the example I gave earlier - if a women is taking care of her family and for example cooking meals for her children and husband she is loooked down upon by Career women for whom all these activities are unproductive.
However if the same women will sell pizzas for a paltry salary you will start considering her productive. This is what I meant by brainwashing of feminists.
Lastly, I never said that women should not do anything else or that they should not pursue careers- I only said that they should not be pressurized to act like superWomen taking care of both outside and inside the house and that they should first fulfil their oprimary responsibilities of upbringing and taking care of children and household.
ROFLING. So my husband is a millionaire is he?
Staying home gets old FAST.
"...what am I supposed to do with my day? Sit on the couch? Eat chocolates..."
Had god given the responsibility of taking care of household to men instead of women I would have been more than happy not to work.
I mean both of you are talking as if your world starts and ends at your workplace (no offence meant). There are 100s of things to do, If I had enough money I would never have bothered about doing a routine job. The weekends pass so quickly that i dont even realize it.
Imagine both of you dont have to work, you have no additional financial responsibility, no workplace related stress and you have full day to live and follow your hobbies, dreams live life to fullest !!!
Well they are just wastes MT. All women who can't have children should just be shot right? They're not fulfilling their purpose in life!
Some women chose not to have children or worse can not conceive. What does the rule book say about that??
Wow. So my son has to love me. Groovy. And after he's done telling me that he loves me 3 times, what am I supposed to do with my day? Sit on the couch? Eat chocolates? Do the umpteenth load of laundry? Twiddle my thumbs?
You know what. He can say he loves me three times and then I'll go to work and feel good about myself AND be busy and productive.
"...What's this "3" times more right? How can you say that when Muslim women can't get custody of their children in a divorce? What rubbish. ..."
One day a man came to see the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny. It seemed that he was trying to solve something but couldn't quite work it out. So he asked the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny. "Tell me, O Prophet of Allah! I have many relatives and many friends whom I love, and whom I wish to care for and help. But I often find it difficult to decide which of them has the greatest claim upon me? Which of them should come first?" The Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny replied immediately, "Your mother should come first and before all others."
The man was very pleased to have this clear guidance from the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny. But of course there were all his other relatives and his friends, so he asked again: "And after my mother, who has the greatest claim upon me?" The Prophet Muhammad's, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny reply this second time surprised him. "Your mother!" he said again.
The man wondered why the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny was repeating himself. Perhaps he had not spoken clearly, the man thought, so he asked the question again, "What I want to know is, after my mother, who has the greatest claim upon me? Again the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny said "your mother!"
Your mother, your mother, your mother!
The Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny had now said it three times. Slowly, the man realized why he had done so. The Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny means that my mother is extremely important, so much so that my duty to her must be stressed over and over again. Even so, the man's thoughts ran on, "what about all the others I love and wish to care for?" Still uncertain and wanting to know more, he once again turned to the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny and said, "and after my mother, who comes after her? Is there anyone besides her?" The Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny then replied "after your mother, your father." And then? asked the man. "Then people who are nearest to you," said the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny.
In universal religion Islam, mother has three times more rights over her off springs than their father because of her significant and crucial role in their birth, brought-up and home education.
In another hadith the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny has said: "Paradise lies at the feet of mothers." In other words Paradise awaits those who cherish and respect their mothers.
Exactly Snessy. Babies are part of both parents, and both parents have the responsibility to provide for their child.
As long as a child is loved, they'll grow up alright.
She'll never know if she can handle both is she isn't given the opportunity and told drivel about how only she can raise her children, and that men are no good at raising children, and that she MUST be home with them 24/7 or they won't develop properly. You can't tell a woman her entire life that she's not capable of doing things and then expect her to do it.
Men have been given the same right...without a man she cannot have that baby and vice versa. It's a gift from God for both, men and women.
insanity the only brainwashed person here is you. What's this "3" times more right? How can you say that when Muslim women can't get custody of their children in a divorce? What rubbish.
I view my success through my own eyes, how proud I am of myself and what makes me feel fulfilled. I could give a rat's behind what other people think. We all do what works for us in our life. I have my child's best interests in mind in everything I do, and I do what I can to make sure he, my husband and I are all happy.
As for "God" it she has an issue with how I'm living my life, she can strike me down anytime she feels like it.
"..If a woman wants to raise a family and have a career she should be encouraged to do both. Not told some drivel about her "primary" responsibilities...."
She should be encourage for both if she can handle both. Otherwise she will become like "breed cow" just giving birth but not taking responsibility and care required for human beings to develop properly
Always better for the women to be mothers full-time when the children are young. Men are usually paid better outside of the home for the same type of job, so it is better economic sense too.
"... I most definitely don't think that winning an Olympic gold medal would be considered a waste of my life. ..."
Exactly, because you are seeing your success or failure from the eyes of other people (liek all career women).
"..I'm sorry, but I'm more than a breed cow. I don't have a "primary" responsibility and..."
You cant fight with God; God has given women the ability and privelege to give birth to children (not to men) and hence god has given women 3 times more right on her children than men. However if you look down upon this ability of women and equate it as to a "breed cow" then it shows how much you have been brainwashed into beliving the feminists theory.
If I earned more than my hubby, he would be the one to stay at home holding the baby. You do what works for you as a family unit, not what religion or culture says.
I'm sorry, but I'm more than a breed cow. I don't have a "primary" responsibility and I most definitely don't think that winning an Olympic gold medal would be considered a waste of my life.
If a woman wants to raise a family and have a career she should be encouraged to do both. Not told some drivel about her "primary" responsibilities.
Also, it is not a question of what women can do and what women cant; a women can waste her entire life to achieve a gold medal in olympics - but that was not her main responsibility (of raising her children).
However if she can achieve after fulfilling her primary responsibilities it is fine but not all women are mentally and physically competent to achieve success in both the fields so lets not put pressure on all women just because of a few women who can do all these things.
Lastly, more often than not most of the career women havent been able to provide the kind of emotional support to their family as a women who is totally devoted to her home.
"...Insanity, your religion may tell you that women can only be mothers, but the reality is that women can be both mothers and career women..."
My religion says that women can be both mothers and career women, but the responsibility of providing for the family lies with men.
Insanity, your religion may tell you that women can only be mothers, but the reality is that women can be both mothers and career women, just like men can be father's and have a career. Both parents need to provide for the well being of their children.
Agree with miss Mimi and Missteacher..
It is man's responsibility to provide for the family not that of women. If the women wants to work it is fine as long as she doesnt compromise on her main responsibility to taking care of children and household and observes the Hijab and modesty (both in dress and actions).
However one thing I dont understand is the feminist way of thinking. It is a privilege given to women that they have got 3 times more right on children than men and also it is a privilege given to women that they are not responsible for providing for the family rather it is the man who has the responsibility.
However these feminists glorify mothers who work; if a women is a homemaker and she is cooking food for her husband and family then it is looked down upon; however if the same women will serve pizzas to strangers for 50-100$ per day with a plastic smile she is considered a Career Women (succesful).
I think this kind of attitude is harmful to women themselves as this is putting more pressure on women to become a SUPERwomen who has to endure stress at workplace and stress at home which is not practicable in the long run.
YOu say your view is not outdated Flor?! ..seriously!?? LOL
Rofling. My God you live in the Middle Ages don't you?
in a family in general (and as I mentioned above, based on the Holy Book and in our church). Married woman is to take care of the household and the children. But in these trying hard days, women can work and HELP in the financial aspect of the family BUT that is not the norm. It is the man's primary duty to do the working and earning for his family. Again, that is the norm as written.
Of course if you don't believe in what was written, you will always contradict this norm, and I won't be surprised.
It is just like saying the norm is MAN and WIFE, not MAn and MAN or WOMAN and WOMAN!
What was created as per written is MAN and WOMAN only. If there are man who acts like woman, they are still man. Priod.
Flor, what do you mean by "inherent" the only thing that's inherent is that parents take care of their children. I'm the breadwinner in my family, that's my inherent role.
Britexpat said Wed, 18/04/2012 - 11:50pm
"Interesting observation.. Are we talking stay at home mums here?"
Working women talk about work, it's thier life. Hearing about all about the he said, she said crap from work gets old fast and if I don't boss my wife or girlfriend around- there is no way i'm gonna let another man do it five days a week. She's better than that
I mean my comment or my view.
Growing up my dad worked and we never saw him, my mum also worked..Now my dad is a stay at home husband he has more time with the younger kids..I see no harm in it at all..Growing up with hard working parents be it a mother/father or both sets a good example in my book..
To OP and comments about both parents needing to work--
For most people in developed countries it comes down to a choice and how much material sacrifice is necessary to do the right thing and have a parent in the home when the children are young. It means smaller house, lesser car, less entrainment out. Some are not willing to give this up because of so-called "need" for such things.
Hmmm al leave it thanks....better things to do with my Saturday. TBH I dont think you really know how to dissect your own comments or explain them.
so we'll leave it here, ok? Read my comments again and try to dissect the real essence. Good afternoon.
Is what the general rule in my culture?
How can some mean whole???!!!
I'm not married yet.
No we go with the times and accept people for who they are.
it's the interpretation that your culture want to synchronize to what you want, not as written.
in your culture? Does "some" represents the whole? Is your husband a stay-at-home husband while you work?
How can you believe it is really outdated? We move with the times! i.e. some men now stay at home with the children while the wife go out and work.
Be careful when you say "You believe in same sex marriage, we are not!" because you don't know what I believe. If you are referring to my culture then we don't all believe in the same things and can't be grouped with the same beliefs. Hence not outdated.
With same sex marriage it is more accepted in our culture yes, which is a good thing. Just because you don't "believe" in gay/lesbians doesn't mean they don't exist and that it will go away. Our culture has just moved with the times and realised that this is part of the world and society and instead of brushing it under the carpet and disrespecting/shaming people because of their sexuality our culture accepts that it exists.
However, as I said at the start not everyone in our culture 'believes' in it or even accepts it. Some are even homophobic.
Are you asking if I teach children the roles of gay/lesbians???!!!.....seriously?
But I believe it is really outdated in your culture. You believe in same sex marriage, we are not!
So who is the wife working? Can two men be man and wife? Or two women husband and wife? Is that part of what you teach?
Some men stay at home & the wife is the bread winner! No rule book I'm afraid ....ur view Flor is very outdated in my culture!!!
does not contradict mine. What we are discussing is if it is inherent for women to be the bread-winner? My position is and will always be the same, THEY can HELP but it is not their inherent responsibility.
so your statement is wrong! But if you are observant, you will start to recognize us even in the USA and Canada.
And Wirehead, so TRUE your statement about the priests' pre-marriage seminar.. I will not contradict you on that, actually, I am pleased you know it!
Priests...ya...they should know ALL about marriage....rofl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
only in his family apparently. i've friends who chose to have civil weddings instead because the church requires them to waste time on pre-marriage seminars conducted by priests who have no clue about married life.
Flor, so that's how it is done in the Filipines? Really? Hmm.....when I look around I got to say, it does not work particularly well, does it? :P
I did take a pre-marriage seminar Flor, but as I'm not part of your church and my church not only believes in divorce but in the responsibility of BOTH parents to provide for the child, we obviously didn't get the same lecture.
Both parents are responsible for providing for the child, both physically, spiritually and emotionally.
"There's nothing more attractive in this world than a housewife- and a woman that has raised children is infinitely more interesting than a woman who hasn't."
Interesting observation.. Are we talking stay at home mums here ?
and there are COMMON responsibilities.
If you talk about working to earn a living to support the family, that's the primary responsibility of the FATHER. If the Mother wants to help and work also, SHE CAN BUT that is NOT her primary responsibility. Her primary responsibility is to take care of the household and children properly as "commanded".
is a seminar for those who are to get married. In our church, it's mandatory. In our country, the family planning seminar is also mandatory.
It is somewaht a lecture about family planning.
But to our church, the responsiblity of each individual who will be getting the matrimony passes through this so the responsibilities of each individual is taught as per our belief (the Book is the Bible). This is to make sure that if there will be conflict later on, the individual can go back to what was taught during the seminar and try to resolve any conflict within the bounds of the responsibilities each individual is answerable.
But foremost in the seminar is inculcating to the individuals that marriage is not a JOKE that one must try and if it doesn't work, to divorce (divorce is not allowed in our church). Marriage is a DIVINE act that whoever enters into it need to know the EXACT responsibility/ies of one contracting individual. It is a CONTRACT in front of God, not only on man.
Flor, what is a "pre wedding seminar"...and what book are you talking about?
i agree with mimi 100%. since the beginning of time, it is not true that the responsibility of raising the children sits solely with the mother. not in our culture at least. it was only western civilization, including the introduction of christianity, who taught us that it should be that way.
in pre-colonial times, both men and women had economic responsibilities, but they had different roles. some ethnic groups even forbid men from taking part in farming because it was believed that only those who have the ability to nurture life inside their bodies can nurture the earth. so the men did the hunting and fishing instead. raising children was a shared responsibility of the parents with the assistance of the extended family and the community
you are right flor1212
it was not taught to you during pre-wedding seminar and during the actual wedding.
As I said, because of the current situation, WOMEN or MOTHER CAN help, but that is NOT their inherent responsibility (I mean to earn a living).
If this is still not clear to you, then it only mean one thing, YOU don't understand the difference between husband and wife.
Both parents are responsible for raising the child, whether that's both working to be able to provide for the children, or one staying home (either mother or father).
to be the bread winner is in the father. If the mother wanted to help, fine, but her natural responsibility is to take care of the family.
But you keep on insisting that father and mother are both responsible to be breadwinners to put food on the table.
So.....what's your point?
and my youngest brother was 1n 1972. From my elder sister to our youngest sibling, we are eight and my mother is a stay-at-home mum. My father is a warehouseman then so you can imagine how much he is earning (maybe just above minimum), we never missed any meal. And aside from one of the eight, we all finished college.
Pretty much until industrialization Flor. Unless you were wealthy and could afford people to get your food for you, you pretty much needed every able bodies person out working. That's why people had so many kids.
are we talking, MM?
Flor, food is the responsibility of both parents. If you really want to go into the past, children would have been left with grandparents and older siblings while both parents went out to hunt & work the fields to provide food. It takes a village to raise a child, not just a mother.
I don't hold it against a woman if she has to work outside the home to survive, but I feel I must say this..There's nothing more attractive in this world than a housewife- and a woman that has raised children is infinitely more interesting than a woman who hasn't.
Thats just my experience
responsibility of a mother. From the beginning of time, it is the man that was instructed or naturally responsible to be the bread-winner. Women were to raising the family. But during this time of hardship, women CAN help their husband but the obligations at home is not to be compromised!
I think that's the point of the article wirehead, that not only do working mothers do everything that stay at home mothers do, but they put food on the table and have careers as well.
as much as i have respect for the stay at home moms who gave up their other careers for their families, i admire moms who work but still fulfill their duties as mothers to their children. my mom is one of them.
it's not just about the money, although it is very important and equally admirable for some of them to sacrifice the most important parts of their children's lives just to ensure that there are enough resources for them to continue to have food on the table and ensure a good life for their kids. and yes, it's hard for the kids as well. i cried hard when i was the only one who didn't have a mother to escort me down the aisle for my first communion because she couldn't leave the office on time. my dad traveled a lot and didn't earn enough then.
it is also important for a mother, as a woman, to feel she is productive. that she can choose to reach her full potential as a human being and her identity is not limited to being simply someone's wife, mother, daughter and sister, although she is also all of those roles at the same time. that she can make something of herself through her own endeavors and achieve some things by herself.
I wish I was a home stay husband Aaaah what a life that would be..:)
Tinker, I love that one! Very apt!
Here is the thing. One can look at this from different sides. A stay at home mun does not bring home money. She is, one could say, employed. By the one (usually husband or partner) who DOES bring the money home to finance this whole endeavour. She does her work, and she gets paid for it. Now, how much depends on what kind of boss( husband or partner) she chose. One that brings home a lot of money, or one that brings home a little.
Her work is important, as she takes care of one side of the business, and the other party (husband, partner) of the other side.
Both are equally important, as one does not function well without the other.
Of course, there are mothers/fathers who take care of both sides without the help of a partner. Nothing wrong with that either...although pretty exhausting to run a venture like that all by yourself...I am always for delegating...you have to make compromises, but still, it is my preference.
Working mom is knocking at the door.
Working mom says:
“Mom who?” /:
Working mom goes nuts! O_o!
“Whaddya mean, MOM WHO?”!!!!
are for what ?
After leaving college, I worked until a month before I gave birth to my little boy. I am currently a stay at home mum but I want to go back to work when he starts school full time (which is in September - yay me!). Sadly some parents are unable to make that financial sacrifice of being a stay at home parent, I am grateful that I can. Although I had a great job in London and didn't want to give it up, I was willing to sacrifice a few luxuries in my life to ensure my son had the best start in life (and because I didn't want to miss anything, like first words, etc). I can always go back to work and although I may not earn as much or perhaps be on the career ladder where I left off, I can always get back there eventually. I can't, however, see the first five years of my little one's life again...
No, but he's just as good at caring for our child as I am.
hmmm...then he doesnt qualify as 'stay at home husband' as a 'stay at home mom' is discussed.
Life doesn't end just because your children leave home and start their own lives..It's time for new adventures...Being a good parent is all about teaching your children to live in the big bad world!
He was going to university Prism and he still is. He's only stay at home 2 days a week and once he finishes Uni he'll be working full time.
MM..after you left home before you had the child what was your stay at home husband doing. Also what would he do when your child leaves you all one day to start his own life.
councils removing 'at-risk' teenageers....this is not parents kicking them out.
Thanks, I understand. It is clear.
I didn't say you were deedee. I just know I was bored being at home after 3 months. I can't imagine what I would do when there wasn't still kids in the house to take care of.
MM, that's not throwing the children out, that's taking them from abusive homes and putting them in safe homes with loving families.
Sajmarhab, my mother was a stay at home mother, but I learned as much from her as I did from my father, my grandparents, my aunts and uncles, family friends, nursery school, school, etc. Sorry if you didn't have a strong extended family and friends network when you were growing up.
Are you kidding me? How about the dishes, the laundry, the shopping, the cooking, the helping in their classrooms, organizing their sports/music/church/scout activities.
Believe me, I have plenty to do. I take my career seriously and I do a freaking good job. I am molding human lives--creating valuable contributing members of society. I am not sitting eating bonbons and watching soap opera!
the housemother, not only taking care of children, home, etc... they are transfering the love, affection, and culture to the new generation, where to build a legitimate society, and new generation they will tranfer those affection, love and culture that they recieve from their Mother to the Next generation.. it's going on, and on, and on..
those who didnt recieve such experience like MIMI, they'll come up with such rediculouse thread.
by the way mimi, your husband is taking care of your children and house. it is great to hear from you.
.......''Councils in England launched 886 legal proceedings to remove at-risk youngsters from their families in March, taking the 12-month total to 10,199.''...........
Source MM??? Thousands of children are thrown out their homes?...nonsense!
Being a stay at home mom doesn't mean giving up on your career or anything like that.
I personally know a number of local/Expat women who are single moms and working from home. They running Affiliate Businesses and leading financially / spiritually/mentally fulfilled and fabulous lifestyle.
I'm not your sister MM. And thousands of children are not thrown out in the UK every year. That's ridiculous.
Please be soft, I was going through a local news paper on last Thursday, my sister.
I worked straight from school..Had my son stayed at home till he was 7yrs old..In all honesty i couldn't wait to get back to work..Staying at home doing housework and watching daytime tv gets boring..I wanted a social life of my own again..Be it working..But each to their own..Different people,different lives,different ideals..
MM where the hell do you get your information from?
Flor, I disagree, fathers have just as much instinct as mothers. I know quite a few stay at home dads (including my husband) and in many ways they are just as good if not better than the mother.
Deedee, I'm sorry, but after your kids leave the house, what more is there for you to do all day?
How much moeny is enough? Its understandable if a single mom has to work to raise the family but some times parents gets too greedy
I've been a stay at home mom for 23 years now. It is hard work. ALL moms make sacrifices in life and this makes no mention of that in relation to SAHM's. This is my career no matter what this nitwit says and I will NEVER be done with it. Nothing is more permanent than parenthood. By the way the Rewards, as well as the regrets, are greater in parenthood (not just mothers) than in any other occupation.
It's only in the city that this kind of attitude is prevalent. Look at the rural areas, life is simple, farmers can bring their children to schools up to college. It's hard but that is life, hardship is part of everyday life.
Motherhood is really a carreer. It's a choice, whether to stay at home or work, but taking care of the children will remain the basic responsibility of the MOTHER. The instinct of mother care and love is inherent to women, fathers have their own basic responsibility. Of course both should make sure the family is well taken cared of.
It is hand to mouth....really.
Thousands of the children are thrown out of the house every year.
I would love to be a stay-at-home mum!! Parent's in UK more often than not, both need to work to provide a suitable income to suit a comfortable lifestyle.
So you shouldn't have kids if you can't afford to have one parent stay at home?
And therefore they shouldn't have kids if you can't "afford" them!