Qatari's attitude towards Expat Women & Why?

Iam here in qatar for about 6 &1/2 years. Many people have said to me that they are happy about the Qatari youngsters attitiude towards the women because these guys are not starring at our wives & daughters in a bad sense like we experience in our countries. Do you think it is right? if YES/NO then why?

Comments

Yes it is right. Qataris are interested in Arabic ladies or any lady exposing her body openly.

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I have seen them following only ARABIC LADIES. They just stare at western Ladies.

Depends what you consider "a bad sense". While a lot of religion's claim that lust is some sort of a sin, without it the human race would be in dire trouble as no one would procreate. People lust after people they perceive as fertile and viable for successful procreation, it's actually a biological form of flattery.

most qataris like qatari ladies but some like and desire non-qatari women..

As good as it may seem that Qataris don't look lustfully after expat women, you can't judge the human mind.

So who actually stares in a "bad sense" ?

qatari's are more into glamour and dreamy stuff ,which u will find alot in the arab females unlike the asian ladies. just to update 90% of arab ladies will not step out of their house without make up and well dressed even if its for buying a bottle of water form a mall. they have to maintain there class.......and not the least they want attention from other ppl...so its a mind plan which is insisting the arab guys to check em out

I mean, come onnnn.. like who cares just ignore..

It's different from case to case ..

Plus..starnig, sadly, is not considered as rude in the Arab world.. FACT.

Take it easy and act like you didn't notice.. Like they're invisible..

[img_assist|nid=7232|title=Dua|desc=Amen :-)|link=none|align=left|width=440|height=56]

I thought you have to honest to yourself in every aspect of life, even if it concerns your true feeling. Hiding something is a sin?..lets say you feels lustful..and..

Almost 6yrs here and have found that Qatari men generally are

very polite

charming

smell good

respectful

giggly

I always had a feeling that I had Qatari blood in me :)

Giggly?

Hmm, I don't believe I've ever seen a Qatari man giggle.

Most Western men don't oggle or if they do they do it in a subtle way.

It is usually the Asian men (bachelors) that oggle and who can blame them when they are locked up in camps.

I think all men oggle some just do it in a more subtle way.

What I find; I want to say amusing but that is not the right word; that actually people who reveal a lot, sometimes are less attractive then those that cover.

As one of my male friends said, 'they always look so gorgeous and groomed, I fantasise what's underneath the cover. These girls that show it all, leave no elemant of surprise'.

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God does not believe in Athiests.

It depends on the person's mind.... No one can tell what the others mind is thinking unless you are a psychic but nonetheless you cant tell at all....Behold the eye of the beholder for they can hide whats the real thing inside their minds...

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" Failure is Not an OPTION "

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Well I am female and I ogle at women too. All people like to look at beautiful things, and it is a pleasure to look at a stunning woman. It's like looking at a work of art. That's why it is such a shame that some women cover up. It's like denying the world of some of it's natural beauty. Like chopping down the trees of the cities you live in.

There is far too much ugliness in the world, why resent the people who are just trying to glimpse some loveliness.

QATARI'S LOVE ONLY FILIPINOS [:p] .. BANG EM .. N THEN THEY LEVAE EM [:d]

+| Jokk3R |+

bottom line is QAT ladies are buff.....when they walk in any place they usually life up that cover they have on check every body out once if they like, they will stare else they wud put that cover back on....!!!!!

IVE BEEN BLESSED 4 HAVIN U IN MY LYF, IF I HAD THE CHANCE I WUDN'T HESITATE 2 MAKE U MY WIFE.

what a stupid thread.

We're not a special race.

I know Qataris married to Qataris

Qataris married to Americans

Qataris married to Chinese

Qataris married to Bahrainis

Qataris married to Germans

Qataris married to Spanish

The list is endless. Guess what?! Qatari people are individuals too. We're NOT THE BORG!

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Mr. Q's Blog - A Qatari's view on Qatar.

I hate you.. Now I'll spend the day dreaming about the possibility of being assimilated by Seven of Nine :)

Qataris are nice people...

but we can't tell what's in their mind

when they look at a woman...

may it be good or bad...

nobody knows.

besides why wud they look at us

Qatari Ladies/Arabs are more beautiful to look at

as SHANAWAZT said they are glamourous....

MyHotComments +

the last 7 times I've been followed in my car, has been by Qatari(or the look alikes) men(and they all look to be around the age of mid to late 20's)...so its not just the nationality..its just men over here in general. Why must people generalize about national traits? Amnesia is right..

And..I KNOW they stare at Alexa..I've seen it!!

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the main difference between a dog and man.

-Mark Twain-

@britexpat, having a homer moment. Mmmmm seven of nine....

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Mr. Q's Blog - A Qatari's view on Qatar.

The only reason you know they are staring is because you are doing it too. Maybe they think you are sending a signal by paying attention to them.

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Brazilian Jujitsu in Qatar

http://iloveqatar.net/bjj/

MissX said "... All people like to look at beautiful things, and it is a pleasure to look at a stunning woman. It's like looking at a work of art."

- Agreed.

"That's why it is such a shame that some women cover up. It's like denying the world of some of it's natural beauty."

- Yeah but that beauty could be reserved for a select few quarters - family and friends only. Selfish? But to each his/her own.

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Don't want no drama,

No, no drama, no, no, no, no drama

"All people like to look at beautiful things, and it is a pleasure to look at a stunning woman. It's like looking at a work of art. That's why it is such a shame that some women cover up."

You should consider living in a house built of glass walls... so the whole world can see the 'beauty' round the clock...

Seriously... Some women feel the need for more privacy in the way they dress... as long as they are not being forced to dress that way and they are doing so at their own accord, whats your problem?

I have absolutely no problem with it. My problem is with the people who are saying a woman should cover up.

As per this thread's topic.

If she wants to cover, let her cover. If she doesn't, accept her choices, as long as they are not flaunting laws or showing disrespect for local culture (like here in Qatar).

I never considered myself or any other woman "a work of art". That is commodifying the female body and I detest that.

 

 

 

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Well you know that they say...

"People living in glass houses should not throw stones at others" ;-)

Anyway, jokes apart... you may be fine exhibiting your natural beauty and bearing the unfortunate consequences that may entail in this part of the world...

But as long as there is no compulsion on women, whats wrong with women who feel more comfortable dressing up differently from the way you do...?

I can understand that you feel that women on this side of the fence are forced to wear an Abaya by Societal pressure...

But don't you realize that the women on the other side of the fence are probably feeling sorry for YOU that Societal pressure forces you to dress in what they would think is too 'flashy' or 'daring' and are as comfortable wearing an Abaya as you are wearing jeans?

I know when you go to a mall... you are probably feeling sorry that there are so many women 'forced' to wear Abayas

But do you realize that there are women in Abayas like my wife who is thinking to herself how women can wear such tight, revealing, skimpy clothes

Versimilitude well said. Coins are having both sides.Assuming ourself,"what ever we think / write is perfect and this is the justice for whole world" If Missx thinks like this ,it is wrong.Dont see from behind the bars and say "my god these people are behind the bars "/ At the same time,They will also see you and say'My god MissX is behind the bars".So dont be a one side justice provider.Think about both sides and then write the real facts.Abaya may be convenient for this ladies and jeans may be convenient for you,

"All people like to look at beautiful things, and it is a pleasure to look at a stunning woman. It's like looking at a work of art. That's why it is such a shame that some women cover up. It's like denying the world of some of it's natural beauty".

I agree with you ,yes looking a stunning women like you is " looking at a work of art".

But some women cover up is a shame for you.Poor Miss x,how do you can think like that.It is their convenient dress.In qatar no body compelled you to wear Abaya.At the same time you should not compell others to dress like you.what you feel as convenient may be inconvenient for them.you are not the dictator of the world to force every body to dress as you wish.

It is impossible for you to control your daughter's dress wisdom.

So think twice before write.

Dont assume that you are the Lady Hitler??

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Cat thinks that world is dark, by closing its eyes.

But Reality........!!!!

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lol you guys are acting like I am telling women what to wear. This topic is about Qatari's attitudes towards expats clothing. In other words, Qatari's are the ones disapproving our clothing, not the other way around. I have no objection if a women wants to wear an Abaya, I personally think it's a shame because I like looking at pretty things. However I do not in any way deem it unacceptable. My entire point is to let women wear whatever they want, whether it be skimpy clothing or an Abaya.

You guys getting the point of this topic yet?

i dont know about how the things running in qatari's mind especially man towards the non qatari's fashion attitude. but to think again, since 90% all they see surround them is gurls with abaya, who knows or maybe they got bored from black colour and go for colourfull one for a change. at the end their still human being.

as we do all know tht, qatari's ladies wear top brand and expensive clothes with nice design. its tottally their own choice with wht they will do, either tht they want to show off or not under their abaya. just let them do whtever they want, as like they let us do whtever we want here, as long as not harming us and others. but dont forget theres a limit to everything and also the local traditions u have to respect as a guests in their land.

Qatari ladies wear Abbayas because is part of religion to cover your body, they are proud to do it because they respect theirselves and others. Husbands don't force their wives to cover their body. These ladies are being tought by their parents to do so gradually in their childhood and they are proud to do so. I am not a qatari but my husband is and I am proud to wear these decent clothes too. Nobody forced me to do it.

Regardig Qatari men stearing at foreign ladies, we can not generalise and don't know what is in each person mind when they do it. Qatari men are wonderful people, they are respectful, polite and decent. I have great admiration for those people, and applause the fact that they are still living their lives up to their tradition and religion.

You are just contradicting yourself

On one side you say that women wearing Abaya is like chopping off trees...

and then you say you have no problem with women wearing Abaya

make up your mind first

Your logic that all things beautiful should be put on display is illogical and flawed

Besides, beauty is in the eye of a beholder...

I see more beauty in a woman dressed modestly than a woman who is dressed otherwise...

And I clarified it for you a couple of posts later

"I have no objection if a women wants to wear an Abaya, I personally think it's a shame because I like looking at pretty things. However I do not in any way deem it unacceptable"

Sure, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But in an Abaya how much of the woman can you actually see? The beauty for you seems to be that the less you see of a woman, the more beautiful she is to you. Speaks novels.

A French lady told me that western ppl find it "sad" that Qatari woman are "forced" to cover up.

My answer was we're not forced. We're taught and raised to do so and it's different. When a woman is convinced that this is how Allah wants her to dress she does it light heartedly and comfortably. Obeying Allah is a priority to us because we find it silly to build this short life at the expense of the ETERNAL one!

That's why you see different women dressed differently, with different "levels" of decency. It's their personal preference.

As for our attitude towards expats, we generally respect them but we find it disturbing if they don't respect our traditions and expose more than we expect. Unfortunately, it's Arab women who often dress less decently, especially Lebanese (no offense meant)

I'm A WOMAN but I'm vocal about admiring beauty when I see them.

I never gets tired looking at those arabic women in their gorgeous abayas EVEN IN the summertime (such as nowadays) without breaking to sweat. Come on, wearing clothes under THAT BLACK GARB...and black absorbs heat more than any other color...fascinating, indeed.

Its the ladies who aren't wearing the Abaya who are so sad and uncomfortable for those wearing it... yet to see even one comment from a lady saying,"I wear the Abaya and it is oppressive"

Go to Saudi Arabia and ask some of the women there if they want to wear an Abaya. There are blogs dedicated to the plight of oppressed women in Saudi Arabia, and no they do not want to wear Abaya's.

Although times have changed, and not all women are forced to wear Abaya's any more, an Abaya is still a symbol of oppression, and to deny that is just naivety.

it is required by law to wear an Abaya and it is totally understand that women should feel aggrieved for being forced to wear

But outside of Suadi, it is a different scenario... do you see any sites in Qatar with woman complaining?

Although I do see many threads in QL with women who don't wear Abayas complaining on behalf of other women who wear Abayas... but I am yet to see even one lady saying, I am forced to wear an Abaya and I feel oppressed...

An Abaya is a symbol of oppression only for people who perceive it that way... not to the vast majority of women who wear it willingly

I think the real symbol of oppression is the mini-skirt...

oppression is women hard-wired to think that their beauty has to be put on display for people to enjoy

oppression is women starving themselves to be a certain size

oppression is young girls being programmed to think that they need to look a certain way and if they don't measure up, they are taunted and made fun of and eventually end up being bitter and having a wretched childhood

I think you will find, that the women who feel obligated to wear Abaya's in "free" countries, are oppressed in such a manner, that they do not ever consider publicly complaining. That is the paradox of oppression.

And to be honest, if we are talking about physical beauty, then yes it has to be displayed for people to enjoy. I completely believe that you find the picture on the right more beautiful. But you have to concede that it is not the actual physical beauty of the woman that makes the picture more pleasing for you, it is the lack of presence of the physical beauty.

I know people from the 'Developed World' sometimes perceive themselves as the pinnacle of human evolution

and think that the rest of the world is plunged in darkness...

So all that you see is different from the way that you do things is perceived as oppression

And you take it upon yourself to be the Crusaders of the world and rescue it from the darkness they are in

Irrespective of the fact that the people you are trying to save are probably happier than you are in your own miserable lives....

Anyway...

The real paradox is that you insist on interpreting beauty as skin deep...

I welcome you to start a thread on QL and find out just how many women who wear Abaya in Qatar are oppressed...

The fact that you consider them so docile that they cannot complain against the oppression they are under is indicative of the negative perception you have been fed to believe by the media...

I can introduce you to dozens of women who wear the Abaya and are very successful professionally and happy in their personal lives... you are free to ask them yourself if they feel oppressed... However, if you insist on making up your mind on their behalf, then you cannot be helped

I could say that the compulsion you feel that beauty needs to be displayed for people to enjoy is a kind of oppression and that you just don't realize it... its a pointless argument...

I have a feeling you skim over other peoples posts, and don't read them properly.

I have agreed that there are women who wear the Abaya willingly, and are not oppressed. But the Abaya is a symbol of oppression whether you like it or not. Symbol, being a representation of something. That does not mean every person who wears it is oppressed, but there has been enough of it in the past, and still in occurrence, for it to be considered a symbol of oppression. And again you ask for examples of oppressed women stating they are oppressed, even though I explained the nature of oppression to you, so I can only assume it is too complicated for you to grasp.

And as for your attempt to make me sound shallow about interpreting beauty as skin deep, is just pathetic. This thread is about physical beauty and the physical expression of it. Go start another thread if you want to hear my comments on internal beauty, but for now stay on topic. And I still maintain that the beauty has to be viewed or realised for people to enjoy it. Is a flower beautiful if no one has ever seen it? Maybe the concept of the flower is, but the physical beauty of it can not be commented on.

And lastly "you take it upon yourself to be the Crusaders of the world and rescue it from the darkness" is entirely your domain. I personally don't care a great deal about the path the rest of the world is on, as long as it doesn't interfere with my own. And people telling me I should not wear something because their beliefs deem it inappropriate, is definitely interfering.

If Saudi women feel oppressed it's not because of the Abaya but because of internal societal and familial problems that lead them to perceive Abaya as a symbol of male oppression. Their revolution is actually against maltreatment.

Freeing the head and body from clothes doesn't free the minds and souls. On the contrary, showing off the bodies leads women to be obsessed with how they look to the extent that a woman who doesn't look like a model is subject to depression because her boyfriend or husband is having an affair with a better looking woman. Haven't you ever seen a western woman crying on TV because she's fat? Isn't this oppression? when you're valued based on how you look?

and they are happy to do so; fine by me and others. Yet we know there are lots of women who cover because they are told to do so and that is not right.

What I would like to see, is this; we are here in an Islamic country and tradition/culture/religion says we have to dress in a demure and respectful way. I am fine with that thus far.

What I would like to see, is women and men who then go and live/holiday in the 'West' MADE to dress to our tradition/culture/religion.

After all; as in Rome etc.

I wonder how that would go down?

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Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)

Popcorngirl: In Qatar you're not made to wear abaya but you're kindly requested to cover 90% of your body. Is this too much to ask? Actually under a strong sun it's healthier to cover the skin!

I am not bound by Religion to wear an Abayya but would like to wear .. coz

1]Great sun block

2] I don't hav to iron my clothes

3]no prussure to look thin so can eat icecream, sweets,,,(;-)yummm.....]

4] whith a facw veil can trick men in to thinking I am who I am not...:p

If you came to my country would you be happy showing 90% of your body?

I know I am not expected to wear an Abaya but would you give yours up to live like some do in my country?

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Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)

Welcome to QL, QatariLady!

Mandi

I will not accept that you make me show 90% of my body because it's against my religion but it's not against your religion to cover 90% of your body. Originally all religions respect decency.

Even if you're atheist it will not harm you in any way to cover your body in light clothes.

Our religion does not say we have to cover.

If you went to live abroad and it was said that you could NOT cover and that was it, would you do it? or would you insist on covering?

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Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)

So yes...

Some new rules that apply to the bars....

The funniest is - LADIES NO SKIRT ABOVE THE KNEE.

So, I am advising all ladies:

Buy a long skirt....

AND COME TOPLESS!!!

:-P

I will insist on covering or stay at home

We should respect each other and I think that expat should respect Qatars culture to some extent and off course we will not tell expat women to wear Burka or Abaya.

A lot of women are here because their husbands bring them here.

We abide by these rules. (Well some of us do).

What if your kid was sick and that place was the only place that had a hospital that could treat your child?

I am being a protaganist here. You can say quite happily you would cover or stay away because you know damn well that in the 'West' we tolerate you covering. So it is easier for you.

Lets say YOU HAD TO LIVE THERE, NO QUESTIONS ASKED. Would you be happy following our social norms?

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Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)

What if the West decided the Burkha or Ibaya was banned and you had to live like us?

What if, when you went abroad it was socially unaceptable for women to cover. If they covered they were stared at, shouted at and arrested?

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Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)

Khalid...

I wonder what would happen if you'd give your own female population that choice.

We have a religious rule that goes: "Necessities allow for the forbidden" (something like this). In this case I will go out to rescue my child.

The west doesn't always tolerate our culture. Muslim women are forbidden from wearing head scarf even though it doesn't inflict any harm whatsoever on any one! Maybe it's because the men love to see women's hair! Wow how oppressive!

In France they're forbidden to wear scarves in schools

The Dude: Believe me we choose to cover up even if our men aren't watching. Some choose not to cover their hair and you see them every where

Ok, PCG, you be the protaonist, I'll be the antagonist. I am constantly AMAZED at how welcoming and gracious the Gulf has been to expats. (How can I count the ways?) First, I'm not sure how much we appreciate not having to learn the language (my spoken Arabic is bad enough and I can't read for sh*t.) What a blessing that is and certainly one that isn't found in (and I'll pick on ) France and the US. Secondly, my friends are astounded in the US when I tell them that we have Chili's and KFC and real, live American first-run movies and Special K in the grocery store and Jeeps and Baskin Robbins (and OMG, Coldstone Creamery!) AND that Khaleejis are kind enough to bend their religious rules and allow alcohol for the expat population. AND that we have churches on land given as a gift by HH in spite of some flack from conservatives. AND that hotels in effect act as "neutral" zones for dress. In return, I'm glad to cover up my (stunning,naturally) body when I'm out in public. In fact, when I come back to the US I'm kinda appalled at the kids' lack of propriety. I have on occasion worn an abaya over my gym clothes and I'm always pleased when complimented sincerely by Qataris. At times I've find more tolerance here than I find for gals wearing headscarves in the US. (End of sermon!)

Mandi

Would you be forced to live like Westerners if you had to?

What if, there was no Halal meat (we live without Pork).

What if, you had to wake up to no Mosque but Church bells ringing at 4am.

What if, in Lent, you had to give something up for 40 days? And if you broke that rule you were sent to Prison.

What if, thre was only ONE Mosque in the whole of the area you lived in but Muslims out-numbered the Christians?

What if, you had to strap your kids in cars and if you did not, you could be fined, sent to prison or your kids taken of you?

What if you were fined or jailed for driving whilst on your mobile?

What if, instead of jumping the queue, you had to wait?

What if, you had to bring your kids up by yourself as maids were not allowed?

Not saying you are like this Qatari, but merely bringing to the table how bloody DIFFERENT it is over here for us and how we get on with it and yet we are still criticised and yet it is plainly obvious if you came to live our lives you would not alter your ways one bit.

Seems unfair to me.

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Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)

Mandi forgets that only a small portion of the Americans gets to travel abroad and that the media in the US is heavily controlled.

No wonder Americans do not know much about what is beyond their borders.

I think I covered your post with that answer to.

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Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)

Don't mean to be picky or contrary, but there are three-dozen or more churches in Qatar. And I sure DO get fined when talking on my mobile in the US!

Mandi

Not forgetting that most Americans do not own a passport so therefore don't even travel out of their state let alone out of the country and I think when America was polled MOST did not even know UK was part of Europe or where the Middle East was.

Mandi by saying your friends back home are amazed at the American ways over here does not help the post.

Would they or would they not live like us and follow our rules IF THEY HAD TO?

I think some would for a while but most would not.

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Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)

Where are these 3 dozen churches?

And yes you should get fined for speaking on your mobile whilst driving.

Dangerous *******.

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Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)

"plainly obvious if you came to live our lives you would not alter your ways one bit"

This popcorn is not their fault.

This is the fault of western governments being to social/democratic and not valuing culture enough. Here they do. If our western cultures would become more nationalistic, expats in 'the western' societies would have to adapt or 'take a hike'. In the very near future you will see this happening in Europe, note the movement of European politics to the right.

Oh yes, the church here...

Grateful the religious expats should be for their church. It is conveniently located in the middle of freaking nowhere.

Mandi,

There are 2

One near Karwa, one new near the Marriot.

As far as I know.

Oh yes, and those whom recently congregated .... got shortlisted for deportation.

In some countries they have become too tolerant. I agree with you and some take the piss and those people know it.

I hope one day the tables will turn and it goes back to the way it was; this is my country and you live like us when here.

My point being, Qatar is ok for me, I don't want to reveal my ugly flesh (too old) but they need to be more tolerant of some behaviour and less tolerant of others.

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Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)

In each Country, popcorn, the cookie crumbles differently. This has to do with government, religion, education, prosperity, wealth, social systems and history.

The way the cookie crumbles in Qatar, suits me just fine. I like it here, and I respect what I need to respect.

In Qatar I found there are simple rules

- Dont do crime

- Dont do drugs

- Dont show affection towards opposite sex in public.

- Always keep in mind that this society is young, thus disorganized, and not entirely democratic.

Fairly basic and not that much different from western countries except for the last point.

You don't have pork but you have other options that you can go for. If in your country we didn't have hala veal but there are other options like chicken, fish etc. what's the big deal?

If you're fined because you were on the mobile this is for your own safety. You used seat belt before us and we used to find it civilised not constraint.

What do you give up for 40 days? I don't think you fast with us. You can eat whatever you wish in Ramadan.

Are you sad because the number of churches is small?! Do you go to church in your own country?

We do wait in a queue!!

Obviously you're upset. For how long have you been in Qatar?

Well, I live in a university community in the US and we have about 500 Muslims in our small college town. Most of them are American citizens or working to become citizens and very proud to be here and incredibly grateful to the US for their opportunities and the new vistas for their children. They are quite conscious of their obligation and desire to assimilate and yet keep a balance with their heritage and faith and families. I certainly commend them for their efforts. All speak English, of course, and comply with all US laws.

Mandi

BTW, we have churches here even though no Qatari is chiristian! The western world is tolerating mosques because there are millions of Muslim citizens there who have the right to practise their religion. Mosques are originally for your Muslim citizens not for expats

Good for you avoiding the point.

Yes we have your options, not ours. Would you live somewhere if there was only beef (not Halal), chicken (not Halal), fish (not Halal), we eat Pork you dont. We are not asking YOU to eat it, just allow us! Is that so hard?

I never drive whilst speaking on my mobile and yet over here, it is 'against the law' and yet lets face it, a lot of people get away with doing it.

In Lent, as Christians we are expected to give something up we love for 40 days. We are also expected to 'fast', pray 7 times a day, give to charity etc. A Bit like your Ramadam but for 10 days longer and we don't expect others to 'join in'. We actully allow other religions/cultures to live their lives as we see this as a test.

Yeah I am sad the nhumber of churches is small as I do resent the fact that in the West we are called intolerant and racist if we do not allow a Mosque or a Temple to be built but as Christians we are allowed (I think 2 churches at most) when here in Qatar there are more Christians than Muslims. Seems unfair and racist and intolerant.

lol at waiting in a queue.

I am not upset, been here long enough to know I won't make a difference and long enough to know you won't either ;-)

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Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)

My church in Doha meets at DESS (9 am Fridays and 7:30 pm Sundays) and is a large Protestant/Anglican congregation called the Church of the Epiphany. We have several hundred members from almost all of the varied expat communities in Qatar. The pastor does many of the weddings for expats here in Qatar and none of us have EVER been threatened with deportation. In fact our relations with the government are excellent. We are building a new facility in the Abu Hamour district and are really looking forward to a large worship, education and fellowship space and collegiality with the other Christian communities here in Doha. Many of these church communities are language-based in affiliation but we have half a dozen or more English-speaking congregations. Come on over sometime! (We don't bite or even get pushy!)

Mandi

Thats one example where are the 3 dozen or more?

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Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)

do you have to meet in a school that is Embassy run? Why are there not churches for all religions?

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Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)

I'm not avoiding the point but maybe I'm not saying the answer in your head ;)

lol at waiting in a queue (you have a point there some don't respect it)

As I've said, many are small, ethnic congregations such as the Tamil group. Then there are the congregations affiliated with the Roman Catholic or Greek Orthodox churches such as the Mar Thoma and the Mar Gregorius and the Philippino groups. Then there are the Syrian Orthodox, the Arabic congregation, the Ethiopian congregation, the Copts and of course, the larger Protestant groups such as Grace Fellowhip and Doha Fellowship. Then there is the very large Indian affiliated Protestant communities which have their own building in Abu Hamour. You do know that for the opening of the Abu Hamour Roman Catholic facility last Easter there were 10,000 worshipers in attendance. It was on the front page of all the newspapers.

Mandi

PCG, are you hearing me? There ARE churches/facilities for all religions here including Hindus. (OK, OK, no Jehovah's Witnesses, but there is a Mormon church in Dubai.

Mandi

The bottom line is in your country you don't tolerate any thing that is really against your values.

For your sake our government allowd alcohol in, even though we consider it harmful to our youth.

II enjoyed talking to you but it's way past my sleeping hour.

Good night all

I say, does this meet the needs of other religions over here? No! This is my point. There are more 'other' religions than Muslims.

I am not asking for all religions to be taken care off (although that would show normal tolerance).

I am saying, they dictate how we live and how we practice our faith but they go abroad and they still can practice their faith, wear what they want, eat what they want etc and we.....well, if we go against it, we are seen as the wayward West.

We are not ALLOWED to wear a skirt above our knees but we tolerate them in Burkas etc.

They hate the West and yet look around you....show me a Qatari supermarket, show me a TRUE Qatari anything for that matter.

They either tolerate or they don't.

It seems so racist and intolerant.

__________________________________________________

Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)

Ma'asalaama, ya sitt! Tsharafna! Tisba al akhair (I know, I know, mod, English only!)

Mandi

ALL the questions you have asked are completely irrelevant

Muslim countries call themselves 'Muslim' because they abide by the laws of Islam. When you or anyone else is invited to work or live here, you come here fully aware what the laws and local customs are.

The country even makes certain allowances to make you more comfortable.

That is because Muslim countries give that much importance to their cultural and religious identity.

It is not the fault of Muslims that religion has lost its relevance in 'secular' Governments.

If you feel you are getting a raw deal by having to respect the local laws and tradition, feel free to ban anything that is nonChristian where you come from...

Muslims would be happy if that were to happen... no more legal prostitution, homosexual marriages, premarital sex etc. etc. etc...

However, you can't... cos religion has lost its relevance in Western Society... that's not our fault... that's your problem... so live with it

With all 'lack' of respect, you above all on here are not worthy of any response.

_________________________________________________

Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)

I would rather say, verisimilitude, that the West has chosen to separate church and state. It's not because religion has become irrelevant. It's a choice I as a Christian uphold and honor. I would rather there be religious ambiguity than religious intolerance in my country.

Mandi

you don't have the wits to keep up... so you did the smart thing... and stopped exhibiting your ignorance... thank you for that...

yep agreed... I was a bit harsh...

you've decided to separate the church and and the state...

but you would agree that the church is losing popularity rapidly in Europe...

Dunno, v, I'm from the US where it seems to be gaining.

Mandi

mode of dress is all the MEN that are constantly weighing in on the subject and speaking for women. Ironically, or perhaps not, it seems to be mostly Muslim men who like to speak for Muslim women.

In the end it is every woman's choice. If only all men could understand this and simply resist the urge to speak for us.

 

 

 

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

that beauty should be put on display. You are treating women as objects and my generation fought long and hard to put an end to this. Please don't set us back 100 years just so you can try to prove a point to some Muslim men who like to speak for women.

 

 

 

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

PM: I'm a woman and I speak for myself when I say that I will not give up my decent clothes for anything. I'm a Qatari woman and I assure you we don't feel oppressed because of the abaya.

In fact we are convinced that Islamic laws concerning women aim to protect women's dignity. We don't get unwanted men to droole over our bodies! We don't feel the need to work as strip dancers or prostitutes. Thank God our dignity is protected because of the Islamic law.

And if you think that we might be suffering domestically, I assure you that our fathers, brothers and husbands are generally nice, generous and caring. Of course there are exceptions but laws and societies are not judged based on the exceptions.

Thank you

Its funny that its the women who don't wear Abayas who are complaining on behalf of the women who wear Abayas whereas people like you who do wear Abayas actually love it

Would you say that most women who wear the Abaya feel the same way?

I have never seen a Qatari woman who sees abaya as a symbol of oppression or who tries to rebel against it.

It is true that many women give up wearing the abaya abroad but they keep wearing decent clothes nevertheless.

We perceive abaya as a solution to a problem. We want to wear whatever modern clothes we want to social events but we don't want men to see what we're wearing so we simply cover it with an abaya.

PM I apologise if I gave the impression that women are objects. It was absolutely not my intention. I definitely don't believe women's beauty "should" be on display, but I find no objection if the person wants to do it. My comments on displaying physical beauty were made to make a point that it is not the physical beauty of a woman in an Abaya that is beautiful, but other measures of beauty. Because, as we can all see, there is no real physical beauty for anyone to comment on. It was a factual statement and did not mean to objectify women.

And still verisi continues to ask women who are obviously not oppressed, if they are oppressed. Verisi for the last time, the nature of oppressed women is that they don't have the freedom to express themselves. Furthermore, they generally do not have the education or will to understand their confines, because they have never been allowed it. The only women who you will hear complain are the ones in forced oppression, like Saudi Arabia. The ones who are born into it, rarely ever grasp the understanding of their oppression, let alone are able to complain about it.

MissX: I agree with you concerning the Saudi society.

I've alwyas believed that "forced" morality is immoral.

That's why Saudi women rebel against abayas it's because their men don't treat them well but they take on what they see as a symbol of this maltreatment.

And when I say forced morality is immoral I don't mean that we have to give morality up but I mean that the approach to it should be modified so ppl accept it light-heartedly

Silvia said: "i see them wearing very tight abaya tht showing their "property", or abaya tht shows the body figures....and sometimes i see they wear abaya and when they walk , i can literally see their leg ...and some of them wearing the scarf just put on their shoulder or showing their hair.........do u have any explaination for tht?

and also excessive make up they used"

This is because ppl differ in their levels of acceptance of rules.

Cities cannot function safely without traffic laws. If some ppl break the laws does it mean that the law is oppressive? No..It means that those ppl are taking uncalculated risks or they don't understanf the good reasons behind those rules.

qatari lady

pls enlighten me something...........

nowadays , especially in the weekends.....i see lots of arab ladies ( not only qatari's), i see them wearing very tight abaya tht showing their "property", or abaya tht shows the body figures....and sometimes i see they wear abaya and when they walk , i can literally see their leg with cute shoes they have ...and some of them wearing the scarf just put on their shoulder or showing their hair.........do u have any explaination for tht?

and also excessive make up they used.........

then, whts the different betwweenn the gurl who wear no abaya with these ladies who wear abaya just like i mentioned above?

if we speaking about islam and stuff,,,isnt tht kind of things is not the right way to wear abaya and kicked far the purpose of abaya? isnt tht against the right way the moslem way dressing?

im just thinking either tht the modernism, or silent rebellion by the ladies who feel opressed like some comment i saw.....

for me, i respect them and everybody here........specially qatari's as am only a guest in their land, it same like when u enter someone house and give the respect to the owner of the house.

Sylvia makes a good point that the way some muslim women dress may be a "silent rebellion". It seems they feel some level of oppression, but yet are not comfortable with an overt disregard of the rules.

I once watched part of a documentary about a 20 something woman in Saudi. She admitted that she and others use heavy makeup to try and add character and colour to themselves, as they have no other way to do it, since they can not remove their Abaya's in public.

MissX.. So do you perceive violation of traffic rules and organizational regulations in the same way? Silent rebellion against oppression?

Sure, the people who obviously break the rules do so because they feel they the rules are not warranted for their particular situation. The difference is that traffic rules are implemented because of the proven fatality rates of car accidents.

Sexual "chaos" can lead to permanent damage as well; single teenage moms, fatherless children, psychological disorders, neglected children, sex-related diseases and the list goes on..

Islam is a principle-centred religion. When Allah imposed hijab (cover) on women it wasn't because women are a shame or ugly and have to be hidden, but Allah justifies that in the Quran by saying that this way they are known as decent so they will not be subject to harrassment.

qatary lady:

u said : "Islam is a principle-centred religion. When Allah imposed hijab (cover) on women it wasn't because women are a shame or ugly and have to be hidden, but Allah justifies that in the Quran by saying that this way they are known as decent so they will not be subject to harrassment"

is tht mean u r also not aggreee with the way some arab ladies here wearing their abaya in the way i was asked before?

and also, as i learn tht abaya should not be attract attention as the purpose to protect the women from harrasment. but if they wear their "unique" abaya with beautiful design and everything, isnt this kind of thing will attract more atttention and can lead to the harrassment which will lead to sexual chaos like u mention before........???????

yea..........think ttht will work out IF ITS EVER HAPPPEND. cant the guy control their "desires" like the gurls did?

Silvia you said: "is tht mean u r also not aggreee with the way some arab ladies here wearing their abaya in the way i was asked before?"

I agree with you..This is a violation of a perfect system that was set up to protect women and thus protect the society. Why do they violate? dunno..like those who violate traffic and organizational rules. negligence..ignorance..weakness..

Alexa you say: Don't you all think that by now, as it IS the 21st century, men should be able to control their "desires" no matter what a woman wears?

The problem is that in their lives it's been less than one century :)

I guess the exact word for tht........ITS WRITTEN IN THEIR DNA.............heheheh

QatariLady living in the clouds. A "perfect system"? If it was a perfect system, then people wouldn't want to change. And what's more, women in Abaya's are harassed too. It is obviously not the fault of any woman if they can be completely covered and still be approached. If you read other forums even pregnant women are approached by men. The fault is not in the clothing or appearance of women therefore this perfect system has a major flaw.

Nope I live in Qatar not in the clouds. I've been living here for a long time and even though I'm attractive enought for someone to chase me yet all I heard from Qataris was their telephone numbers and some sweet words. No one ever tried to pull me in their cars or ask me "how much?"

And about our system, it is perfect but ppl always try to test the limits. We're humanbeings we make mistakes that show us how perfect the system is had everyone respected it "comme il faut"

Pardon me if I sound harsh I don't mean to.

and abaya. Please read my comments more carefully.

Also, since you are a woman, obviously my comment about men speaking for us doesn't apply to you, does it?

 

 

 

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Ah so QatariLady, since you are attractive and wear an Abaya, and have been give nothing but sweet offers, then the other women in Abaya's and the pregnant women who have been harassed must therefore have been acting like hussy's to warrant the attention of less civilised men. My bad. It is the women's fault after all.

the basic fact of whether one is a Qatari (or appears to be one) or a non-Qatari. But let me make it clear that I think these cases of EXTREME harassment are very few and far between.

 

 

 

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Grace under fire

I love your logical way of thinking

the analogy you used for traffic violations was wonderful

Silvia... well I dunno what she's saying really...

hardly making any sense to me but kudos to you qatarilady for bearing her!

As for MissX...

"the pregnant women who have been harassed must therefore have been acting like hussy's to warrant the attention of less civilised men."

you mean to say that Qatar is the only place these kind of things happen?

...with due respect...it's the women in abayas whom I notice to be wearing maximum makeup...Their faces are 'painted'.And you point about husbands going for better looking females is not valid either coz abaya is not for them it's for the other men.I dont think wearing or not wearing abayas has any effect on the women's husbands as far as beauty is concerned.

Life is Beautiful...Indeed!

The argument moved from perceiving abayas as a symbol of oppression to arguing that it's a shield against all evil. Both statements are inaccurate.

1- abayas are not oppressive

2- what protects women and societies is a whole system where decent clothing is one element of it.

Can we all get alone…..reading the thread got me thinking…..those who wear tight Abaya or showing off their body…… some are not Qatari….I am a foreigner who occasionally do wear Abaya…to tell the truth with Abaya, you get some respect….

To those hideous women with gallons of makeup….ouch I don’t think men like women with full make up…..one friend of mine took a woman back to his place…..next morning when he woke up…seeing this woman without make up….he almost had a cardiac arrest…..

To all men, don’t you like when a woman does not expose too much of her body….It is like getting a present…waiting to be unwrap……

Life is Beautiful.. You're right some women wear disturbingly heavy make-up..

PM..I was commenting on one statement when you said men speak for women.. not your overall attitude

Loveless143.. At last someone speaks my language :)

But there are Qatari women who wear tight abayas.. They don't see the purpose of abayas

verisi..Thanx for the encouragement.. I enjoy talking about the philosophy behind Islamic regulations

in fact, vermin who has been so vocal on this and other threads regarding women's dress has consistently spoken for Muslim women. I much prefer (and value) what WOMEN have to say on this issue.

 

 

 

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

I'm new to QL.. Maybe men have to speak for us because there isn't a sufficient number of women on QL who wear abayas :)

Thankfully you are not our first or only Qatari Lady :-)

And btw, I have worn an abaya and shayla for a total of about 4-5 years. So I can even speak on the issue, although I have refrained from doing so because many like vermin would not like what I have to say and would launch more personal attacks against my character.

I think it has a lot more to do with the fact that certain men like to speak for women. :-)

 

 

 

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

JazakAlah feek QatariLady

I would like to hear your story with abayas

samix..perhaps you want to say: barak Allah feek..

because "jazak allah feek" in not Arabic :)

but as long as people like vermin (and others on this site) continue to say I am not a real Muslim and attack everything I write about my personal experiences since becoming a Muslim and moving to Qatar, it would just open me up for more insults and attacks. Hope you understand.

 

 

 

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

PM.. I'm sorry that you had to go through this..

Rule of thumb concerning Musslim attire.. wear anything that is not "descriptive" (tight), nor transparent nor short of course.. If your clothes meet those standards you're fine

and always have since I moved to Qatar more than 10 years ago :-)

 

 

 

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Mashallah ..where are you originally from? (asking only to compare weather conditions lol)

Where did the thread start and where did we end up ? Barbs, insults and even threaths..

The simple fact is that a Muslim lady is required to dress modestly. There is no compulsion to wear an Abaya..

As for morons staring at the woman. They will do that whether she is wearing and Abaya or not. It is not specific to Qataris.

britexpat.. you've summed up the whole issue in this comment

enjoyed talking to you all

see you around

but feel that Qatar is my second home and have really enjoyed living here :-)

BTW, I find if you can adjust to being covered in Qatar (which I have done) then you won't have trouble being covered anywhere since this is the HOTTEST place I have ever been! lol When I go back to the States and they complain because the temperature is 40, I LAUGH at them and call them wimps! I also know that protection from the sun is a key factor in feeling cooler.

 

 

 

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

very short and to the point..

and Abu...women don't stare back when men stare at them(leastways I don't)...but we DO notice it..kinda like the eyes we have in the back of our heads when the kids are acting up...

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the main difference between a dog and man.

-Mark Twain-

jokers is right..

lol at wimps. If you survive Qatar you can live anywhere

Now my daughter will even preface her statements with "I know it is hotter in Qatar, but...." -- rofl

 

 

 

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

I don't know how my ancestors were able to live without A/Cs.. Apparently human body does adapt miraculously!

was suited better to the climate. You know, I grew up with a/c in our home until I was in high school and even then my parents hardly use it. They were children during the Great Depression and still can't be comfortable spending their money for creature comforts.

I love my creature comforts! I almost never turn on the bath or shower without thanking God for the gift of clean plentiful water. Whenever I am overheated a cool bath changes my mood to one of pure contentment. Can you imagine in the time of the Prophet (saw) where sometimes you had to make your wudhu with sand? Ya'Allah!

 

 

 

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Do you know the containers that Egyptian use to keep water cool? It's made of a kind of clay.. perhaps ancient arabs used the same clay in their buildings that's why they're a bit cool.

Yeah if they use sand for wudhu it means they cannot drink! incredible

wind towers -- all of these things helped. It's actually quite interesting to realize what a difference it can make. I remember going into an old fort in the summer time and the difference in temperature was amazing!

Of course, I still like my high rise flat with a/c and running water :-)))

 

 

 

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

They used to place sheets of pinched carton dampened with water to cover the windows so the air passes through the holes and gets cooled by the water. I have to try it to se how effective it really is.

Nothing is more relaxing than flying like an Eagle in Heaven !!

best answer for MissX! the picture will respond for all ur questions :P

i would suggest u to go out more OFTEN .......u will take my "non sense" crap into ur consideration when u see them are walking around like tht.

if u wana give it a try, go to souq waqef starting october time, and on thursday night to malls and restaurant........then u will see wht am talking about. and im guessing, since u r a man, MAYBE u will b having lots of fun "viewing" when u see them

beside am just curious to know, as i can see tht this Qatary lady have more knowledge about this stuff. i just want to learn. and the qatary lady is agrre with i saw here, means she saw lots of them also walking around.

Although, it seemed to me like you did not share your true views on the abaya...

Let me just quote you from another thread...

PM said Because of the levels of hypocrisy, Alexa ...

It is epidemic at this point in time. It's one thing to update your abaya so that on the surface you can say you are complying with tradition. It's another entirely to accept others' freedom to cast it off altogether. Women seem to want to control other women. I suspect a lot has to do with their concern over ownership of their men. But whatever the reason, I find the majority of women to be their own worst enemies.

some women wearing abayas see non-covered women as a threat to their marriages because they feel these women will attract the attention of their men.

unquote

dare say these comments above are not as pleasant as your comments on this particular thread...

There are many abaya-clad women who don't like it that other women don't wear it. There are also some who see these women as a threat. How does that differ with anything I have said here?

I never speak for all women and I am careful to qualify what I say. Looks to me like you are just feeling left out and want to be the one speaking for women again :-)

 

 

 

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Abaya is not "islamic" in the sense that Allah said that all women should wear abayas. No not like that. It's a tradition of the people of the Gulf who found it like a solution to a problem. This way we can wear whatever we want among women and cover up when men are around.

I mentioned in one of my post that many women give up the abaya abroad but most of them still stick to decent clothing based on their perception of decency.

Women are the best thng tht god created... its not bad to enjoy the beauty as far u r not fidling wid the beauty.. So be a Womenizer not dogssss......

Do you mean to say that MOST women who wear the Abaya want to control other women who don't wear Abaya because they are insecure?

So you mean most women want other women to wear Abaya not based on religious beliefs but because they are afraid their husbands would be swayed by these non-covered ladies?

I know of course that most women ARE that way... possessive of their husbands... but when you say its an epidemic, are you saying that wearing an Abaya makes women more insecure about their husbands? i.e. feel poorly about themselves?

Of course you may not have meant it that way... I am just trying to clear misconceptions if any...

in me responding to you. After all, YOU are the one who likes to speak for women. Go ahead and speak for me, too, if you get some kind of thrill out of it.

 

 

 

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

I think many gulf women abandon the abbaya abroad to simply not look different.Although many do that, they still preserve the hijab. I think it's also to be in a comfortable attire. I can't image for instance my wife running the many stairs of metro stations in Paris while in an abbya. Life style is different abroad.

genesis said: "I think many gulf women abandon the abbaya to simply not look different"

This is true that's why we still wear abayas in London because it's familiar there but we don't wear it in, say, Norway because it's not familiar there

Since you are new to our culture, I am trying to understand the source of this misconception and set it right... we don't want others to get the wrong picture right? I know you don't mean to portray things negatively about Islam all the time... but unfortunately almost half the time, that's what you end up doing...

Like about the Abaya, that's just one example

And also remember the thread which was discussing how homosexuality was permitted in the West but not polygamy... And your view was that polygamy spreads sexual diseases when actually... it is statistically established beyond doubt that homosexual behavior and intravenous drugs are the most common reason for the spread of STDs...

Again, we don't want people to perceive our Muslim brothers with more than one wife as being promiscuous do we? You don't want people to perceive them that way, do you?

It is so obviously the high point of your day to come on QL and speak for me and other women. I wouldn't want to take that away from you. Just think of me as your 2nd wife and speak for me like you do your first wife. After all, we are just stupid women who don't know as much as you :-)

 

 

 

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

I find it difficult to understand why they would want to shed it when going to the 'evil' decadant West when there is more chance their 'beauty' be oggled at.

Surely if it is there to protect their modesty and we the 'evil' west do not do modest they are far better keeping it on there and wearing modest clothing here without it; where after all the men are protective of them ;-)

Seems to me that proves a point. They are not happy wearing it nor are some of them proud to wear it because they would not remove it all would they?

_________________________________________________

Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)

popcorngirl.. since you put it that way yes we try to avoid harrassment by not wearing the abaya to blend in otherwise we'll be chased and robbed. the "evil" ppl in your countries don't chase us for our beauty because they have local pros so they don't need our services but they do chase us for our money.

BTW we don't go out in Europe in the evening because everyone there seems drunk whereas here we can leave our homes unlocked and stay safe.

Of course things have changed now with all the expats so we have to repair any broken lock!

Nice to see your racist side shining brightly as per.

I doubt very much you need to blend in as the Abaya and Hijab is very tolerated in the West, we dare not argue against it or we are deemed as racist and not tolerant.

Qatari, no prostitutes here in Qatar then is there not?? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, you may want to get your head out of the sand there. A lot are visited by (whispers this) local men too ;-) We are not blind honey we know what goes on.

A lot of us don't go out here at night, careless stupid, idiotic local drivers, teenage boys who have nothing better to do than make mischief.Oh and the occasional drunk local who kills innocent people too. Starting to sound like the West is it???

Locking doors! Oh dear, when I find out who broke into my car (in good old safe crime free Doha) I will let you know ok.

Insult the West all you like, but be prepared for comeback. This is not the Utopia you think it is. It is just hidden a little better.

_________________________________________________

Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)

popcorngirl .."Nice to see your racist side shining brightly as per."

Telling the truth isn't racism and you know your society too well

popcorn: "I doubt very much you need to blend in as the Abaya and Hijab is very tolerated in the West, we dare not argue against it or we are deemed as racist and not tolerant."

Tolerated yes.. I was referring to the robbers who think that qataris come to their countries with loads of money that they would like to share.

popcorn: "Qatari, no prostitutes here in Qatar then is there not?? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, you may want to get your head out of the sand there. A lot are visited by (whispers this) local men too ;-) We are not blind honey we know what goes on."

Show me a Qatari postitute or shut up! Pros are allowed in for your men because they will not find local pros so they had to be imported from your societies.

The whole point behind the Abaya is to keep a low profile, not to stand out in a crowd and not to attract unnecessary attention.

In the West, people have perception issue with Islam and particularly the Hijab. Therefore wearing the Hijab when you are abroad would be drawing unnecessary attention towards oneself and defeating its purpose.

Such being the case, it is only logical that women should choose not to wear it when they go to the West... there is nothing hypocritical about it...

And please keep some decorum when referring to any specific nationality... your calling the locals careless, stupid, idiot is unwarranted... your tongue is a bit loose today...

There is a proverb you may not have heard... "your drink should lie in the stomach."...

You actually think prostitutes are allowed here for all the ex-pat men???? That's quite insulting, not to mention blind to the truth and condoning breaking the law.

 

 

 

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

I do believe it.. postitution and alcohol were forbidden but are allowed in now as perks to attract expats.. of course locals will "benefit" in the process and this is why conservative locals refuse this situation

Sorry if you find it insulting but you can read the thread "best bars in doha" for more info.

I've discussed this exact situation with several Qatari men and they admit that many Qatari men bring prostitutes into the country for their own use. They set them up in houses and allow their friends to come use them. Did you know these houses are called "Churches" (in English) by these Qatari men?

Did you also know that some Qatari women are meeting men online and arranging to have sex with them for money? I have had more than one Qatari tell me this.

None of this is to say that all Qataris are like this or approve of it. But it is either honestly ignorant or hypocritical to post what you have posted.

 

 

 

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

PM.. offering sex for money existed even in ancient times but I'm talking about a situation where it's organized and allowed officially.. I believe now we'll have an authority for organizing prostitution as in some other countries.

and I hope Qatar will try to eradicate it here as much as possible. I just don't like to see it being unfairly blamed on the ex-pat community when clearly it is a problem that knows no nationality or even (sorry to say) religious affiliation.

 

 

 

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

PM.. Do you know why in Islam committing a sin in public is worse that committing one in private? It's not to promote hypocricy but to eliminate the sins..

When ppl see a sin they get used to it and it becomes "normal" but when it's hidden like they say "out of sight out of mind"

That's why when a couple commits adultery they're not punished until four witnesses testify that they saw them in the act. How would anyone be seen by four persons unless he was doing it publicly?

Alex.. I heard about so-called churches but they were limited..The problem is when females come just to work as prostitutes..

But that is different to me than outright saying something that isn't factually true. Isn't it better then not to say anything, rather than to voluntarily lie to cover up a sin?

And after all, shouldn't we be striving to eliminate the sin altogether? It seems today that so many people seem to think it is enough to lie and cover the sins up, which still seems very hypocritical to me :-(

 

 

 

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

now guys i read al your comment, can i have 1 boyfriend qatari?....honest and sincere....

But what she says makes sense...

http://psychoanalystsopposewar.org/blog/2007/07/11/is-the-iraq-occupation-enabling-prostitution/

Ever since the American Base opened in Qatar, the Government has had to be more permissive

Prostitution is a problem that follows American Armies wherever they go, read the attached article

There are 'event management' companies in Qatar that are making 'arrangements' in an institutionalized way and everyone just turns a blind eye...

Growing up in Qatar, never saw prostitution in the scale we see it now...

Alexa.. sure ..It takes two hands to clap

So I guess those Qataris who set up the "churches" are doing it for the soldiers, huh? Soldiers who, btw, are only allowed to go to certain pre-approved places like the shopping malls.

Such a Qatari-wannabe :-)

 

 

 

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

PM..I can only link it to the expats because the same applies to alocohol.. And when I talked about "public" and "private" it's because expats find it more "honest" to talk about everything publicly.

Vermin has perfected the art of colonic irrigation; on others of course lol ________________________________________________

Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)

so your reasoning seems to be off to me. Alcohol is not illegal for people who meet the criteria to be able to consume it here. Prostitution is illegal for everyone, isn't it?

As for talking about everything publicly, perhaps we are at fault in airing our dirty laundry. After all it has given our detractors ammunition, while they sit back and pretend to be perfect. We should take a cue from the Muslim world, I guess :-)

 

 

 

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Alexa.. How do you understand the "hareem" term?

PM..I think alcohol and postitution are linked.. Otherwise how do you explain that pros are always in bars? ( again I refer you to the thread "Best bars in Doha")

I repeat.. committing sins in public "normalises" them because the ppl get used to them and are encouraged to do them (just like everybody else)

Alcohol and prostitution if it is so wrong?

Surely if they are so against it, none of it would happen.

It can't be just to keep the ex pats happy as so many of the locals join in. And a lot more ex pats don't.

_________________________________________________

Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)

Time to hit the bed..I'll read your post tomorrow

Good night

Isn't there any bar sans prostitutes?

just as there are bars with Qataris in them...

How funny that its said alcohol only came in for the expats!! I can name you 2 bars right off the bat that only cater to Qatari and have for many years...

Wonder if the view from hiding your head in the sand ever gets any clearer...

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the main difference between a dog and man.

-Mark Twain-

You are so wrong. They are linked over here as the prostitutes have to go to bars 9mostly) to meet the clients.

Prostitutes in the West are sometimes called side walkers or pavement shufflers as they walk the streets.

Some are found in bars but most find custom from men trawling in cars.

Some of these men have not seen the inside of a bar.

Or as in over here, 'certain people' have a direct number and brought to their palace oops I mean home.

Please stop with the bashing of your perception of the West. You are digging yourself into a massive hole.

MEN from over here are not perfect nor are the women.

_________________________________________________

Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)

easier to claim perfection when you have a scapegoat to blame all your ills upon?

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the main difference between a dog and man.

-Mark Twain-

to me.

I still don't correlate alcohol and prostitution. The overwhelming majority of people who drink alcohol don't take up with prostitutes. I find it interesting that QatariLady is basing her whole argument of the issue on a QL thread.... :-(

 

 

 

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

qatari lady,PM,Pop corn Girl,versimi , silviya -.Thanks to all of you for a continuous argument made between with you (sabash sariyiyana pootti = wow good tough competition).

I enjoyed this thread.The thread started as "qataris attitude towards Expat women& why?" changed to topic about west,middle east culture dress.Tight abaya / loose abaya? Bars in dhoka? robbery / non robbery? Moral of qatari man/ Non qatari man, Prostitute made by qatari/prostitute made by other country women?

Prostitution utilaised by Qatari/ Non qatari?

oooh i forgot about heavy make up, go to souque,mall to see beautiful tight abayas.

Dressing abayas in western / not?

Traffic violations my god you all ladies discussed all.Some times too spicy( Prostitution for expat only show one qatari prostitute women" qatari man take house and set ladies for their and friends use name church)

Too spicy, some time melodius, i too wear abayas, it is cool for hot sun ...ha haha variety of feelings.

My my god ladies are the the beautiful creature made by god , Now i feel they are too much intaligent to have a healthy argument also.

I feel you ladies what ever you dress abaya or jeans , you will look as beauty only.dress is for the individual convenience some times cultural also.

so i am waiting to get much more information from you regarding the subjects.Plz, you all dont fire me, i am very poor creature who read all your comments and still going to read yours on coming comments with curiyasity.

i bite all my nails as reading a interesting story.when read Miss x comment waiting to read what qatari lady is going to reply? my wonderful god ,it is thrilling like 20/20 match.

Thanks for your contributions ladies.

again i am waiting to read further more from you all......

thing from Qatari men about some of the Qatari women who meet men for money. AND that they meet in hotels for sex for free, or with each other...(so much for no same gender sex occuring!)

I, myself, have witnessed ladies being dropped off at a mall by their husbands only to go up the escalator and directly back down to get into another car with a male in it.

But, we all know its the expats' fault. None of this happened before they arrived...

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the main difference between a dog and man.

-Mark Twain-

If they just didn't want to talk about such things, then I can live with that. But it's when they start slinging mud at others that I get really frustrated. I have to say that I see more of this online than in person. Face to face I find people a lot more forthcoming and honest.

 

 

 

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

but then, perhaps our eyes aren't full of sand...

I just find it rather humorous that its considered OK to have a prostitute in your private home but not pick one up in public? Maybe I read that wrong...hope so...because if you follow that logic, what ELSE that is done behind closed doors, is ok???

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the main difference between a dog and man.

-Mark Twain-

Once you start pointing fingers and saying "its YOUR fault that I am being bad!!" just doesn't cut it. If you are a good person, then no matter what the external pressures, you will continue to act in a good manner.

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the main difference between a dog and man.

-Mark Twain-

tut, tut, how could point out the blindingly obvious and truth when after all it is only us from the 'West' that do these things?

Surely you can't mean, bad things happen here amongst (gasp) the locals?

No! Surely not?

Gosh, who would have thought eh?

Oh well, they get away with it as they can pray 5 times a day, give a bit of the old spondoolies, make out they are a 'pure race' and blame it on everybody else but themselves.

I slap my own wrist at the thought that I, a very married woman with 3 kids could have such an influence over such a 'pure breed' of people.

Anybody would think they were trying living in the 21st century.

_______________________________________________

Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)

sorry i forgot scarlett name in my previous comment. Good question " what ELSE done behind closed doors is it ok?"

certainely they will not read holy books may be do some anatomy investigation?

Now what will qatari lady will reply waiting for that......

you most certainly deserve 200 lashes with a wet noodle!!

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the main difference between a dog and man.

-Mark Twain-

I can totally relate to you. Vermin, er, verisimilitude is one hypocrite guy (sorry to offend you but that is how i feel reading your posts). Let's see you practise first what you preach.

I like living in Qatar (really I do!) and grateful to the Qatari government for my (and my family's) visas but sometimes i cant help but feel oppressed (dont wear this, dont show PDA, dont go there, dont eat that, dont, dont, dont). But what bothers me most is the hypocrisy! I see girls covered in abayas (which shout look at my abaya, it's sooo glittery!) and head scarves (which shout look at my [er,covered] hair, it's sooo big!). They cover to look decent and simple and yet it totally sends the opposite message when they COVER their naturally pretty faces with LOADS and HEAPS of makeup and do their hair like there's no tomorrow. Dont let me get started with the guys.

I dont have problems with following rules, as long as everyone follows, too. And don't tell me Qataris are exempted because they are NOT, some just think they are coz they own this land.

Vermin, er, verisimi, sorry to pop your bubble-world but MissX is also right. :)

This is my opinion based on observation and experience. :)

silly, you didn't forget my name, I posted AFTER you did...and I don't CARE what happens behind closed doors either here or anywhere else, AS LONG AS WHOEVER DOES THE DEED CLAIMS PERSONAL RESPONSIBLITY FOR IT!!! (actually I DO care bcause some really bad stuff happens that shouldn't to young children and defenseless women)

Blaming every bad on the expats is silly and irresponsible. If an expat is drinking..a Qatari does not have to take a drink also. If a Qatari picks up a prostitute (wherever!!), its not the expat's fault, its the Qatari's for not being moral enough to hold back from his weakness. The prostitutes were NOT brought in for the expat military here...how ridiculous is that! The military personnel aren't even allowed anywhere but the malls and the souq, as PM stated...know that for a fact. So, unless they serve alcohol in City Center or Villagio..the alcohol/prostitution connection falls quite short.

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the main difference between a dog and man.

-Mark Twain-

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