Why? Does life mean so little? I'm angry!!!

Killing, anyway it cannot be justified.

Regarding the powerlessness against the stupidity of people:

the fact that most people are so ready to accept it as "part of life" leaves little hope that the human race may ONE day evolved from our primitive and barbaric state!

Stay safe.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

 
Not surprising.......

It helps to USE the brain, as it is given to you not only for balance.

Alexa

 "Be of good courage and HE shall strengthen thine heart..."

 "Be of good courage and HE shall strengthen thine heart..."

NO

An honor killing or honour killing is generally a punitive murder, committed by members of a family against a female member of their family whom the family and/or wider community believes to have brought dishonor upon the family

However the killing of females by their own family members is rare except in tribal cultures of the Middle East and South Asia. Honor killing of female family members occurs among some rural Muslim communities with a strongly feudal tribal culture, as well as Druze and Christian tribes in some Arab countries and Pakistan. It also occurs among other South Asian communities, including Hindu and Sikh adherents in India, the United Kingdom and Canada. However, it is much rarer or non-existent in the Muslim communities of most of Central Asia (including Kazakhstan and Kyrghyzstan), Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, sub-Saharan Africa, Malaysia and Indonesia due to its cultural roots.

My reply to this post lies in my signature below 

“Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men.”

Martin Luther King.

how sad...and unfair....

why take the life of someone simply because of love????? its not in anybody's hand...wanted to say more.. but i don't indulge comments about religion.. this story breaks my heart... :(

Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood.

falling in love is not allowed in this region :( ... as really falling ... don't think that her father killed her for just waving at the guy or telling him that she loves him [not trying to justify this as there is no reason for killing anyone and even god stated that no one should kill any for any reason and if you killed someone then it is the equivalent to kill all people on earth]

These people doing that in the name of old traditions, not in the name of religion ... religion is innocent of these people and they are really so far from understanding it ...

btw Iraq is full with Christians as well and the same goes for them ...

Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment. (Gautama Buddha)

I have always been opposed to the death penalty but maybe this 'father' could meet with an accident.
As honour killing is not mentioned in the Qu'ran perhaps our fellow muslims here could re-iterate this to their Ummah, as this 'father' clearly believed it was his religious duty.

* Afif Sarhan in Basra and Caroline Davies
* The Observer,
* Sunday May 11 2008

This article appeared in the Observer on Sunday May 11 2008 on p8 of the News section. It was last updated at 00:03 on May 11 2008.

For Abdel-Qader Ali there is only one regret: that he did not kill his daughter at birth. 'If I had realised then what she would become, I would have killed her the instant her mother delivered her,' he said with no trace of remorse.

Two weeks after The Observer revealed the shocking story of Rand Abdel-Qader, 17, murdered because of her infatuation with a British solider in Basra, southern Iraq, her father is defiant. Sitting in the front garden of his well-kept home in the city's Al-Fursi district, he remains a free man, despite having stamped on, suffocated and then stabbed his student daughter to death.

Abdel-Qader, 46, a government employee, was initially arrested but released after two hours. Astonishingly, he said, police congratulated him on what he had done. 'They are men and know what honour is,' he said.

Rand, who was studying English at Basra University, was deemed to have brought shame on her family after becoming infatuated with a British soldier, 22, known only as Paul.

She died a virgin, according to her closest friend Zeinab. Indeed, her 'relationship' with Paul, which began when she worked as a volunteer helping displaced families and he was distributing water, appears to have consisted of snatched conversations over less than four months. But the young, impressionable Rand fell in love with him, confiding her feelings and daydreams to Zeinab, 19.

It was her first youthful infatuation and it would be her last. She died on 16 March after her father discovered she had been seen in public talking to Paul, considered to be the enemy, the invader and a Christian. Though her horrified mother, Leila Hussein, called Rand's two brothers, Hassan, 23, and Haydar, 21, to restrain Abdel-Qader as he choked her with his foot on her throat, they joined in. Her shrouded corpse was then tossed into a makeshift grave without ceremony as her uncles spat on it in disgust.

'Death was the least she deserved,' said Abdel-Qader. 'I don't regret it. I had the support of all my friends who are fathers, like me, and know what she did was unacceptable to any Muslim that honours his religion,' he said.

Sitting on a chair by his front door and surrounded by the gerberas and white daisies he had planted in the family garden, Abel-Qader attempted to justify his actions.

'I don't have a daughter now, and I prefer to say that I never had one. That girl humiliated me in front of my family and friends. Speaking with a foreign solider, she lost what is the most precious thing for any woman. 'People from western countries might be shocked, but our girls are not like their daughters that can sleep with any man they want and sometimes even get pregnant without marrying. Our girls should respect their religion, their family and their bodies.

'I have only two boys from now on. That girl was a mistake in my life. I know God is blessing me for what I did,' he said, his voice swelling with pride. 'My sons are by my side, and they were men enough to help me finish the life of someone who just brought shame to ours.'

Abdel-Qader, a Shia, says he was released from the police station 'because everyone knows that honour killings sometimes are impossible not to commit'. Chillingly, he said: 'The officers were by my side during all the time I was there, congratulating me on what I had done.' It's a statement that, if true, provides an insight into how vast the gulf remains between cultures in Iraq and between the Basra police the British army that trains them.

Sources have indicated that Abdel-Qader, who works in the health department, has been asked to leave because of the bad publicity, yet he will continue to draw a salary.

And it has been alleged by one senior unnamed official in the Basra governorate that he has received financial support by a local politician to enable him to 'disappear' to Jordan for a few weeks, 'until the story has been forgotten' - the usual practice in the 30-plus cases of 'honour' killings that have been registered since January alone.

Such treatment seems common in Basra, where militias have partial control, especially in the districts on the outskirts where Abdel-Qader lives.

While government security forces and British troops have control over the centre, around the fringes militants can still be seen everywhere on the streets or at the checkpoints they have erected. And they have imposed strict laws of behaviour for all the local people, including what clothing should be worn and what religious practices should be observed. There are reports of men having their hands cut off for looting and women being killed for prostitution.

Homosexuality is punishable by death, a sentence Abdel-Qader approves of with a passion. 'I have alerted my two sons. They will have the same end [as Rand] if they become contaminated with any gay relationship. These crimes deserve death - death in the name of God,' he said.

He said his daughter's 'bad genes were passed on from her mother'. Rand's mother, 41, remains in hiding after divorcing her husband in the immediate aftermath of the killing, living in fear of retribution from his family. She also still bears the scars of the severe beating he inflicted on her, breaking her arm in the process, when she told him she was going. 'They cannot accept me leaving him. When I first left I went to a cousin's home, but every day they were delivering notes to my door saying I was a prostitute and deserved the same death as Rand,' she said.

'She was killed by animals. Every night when go to bed I remember the face of Rand calling for help while her father and brothers ended her life,' she said, tears streaming down her face.

She was nervous, clearly terrified of being found, and her eyes constantly turned towards the window as she spoke. 'Rand told me about the soldier, but she swore it was just a friendship.

'She said she spoke with him because she was the only English speaker. I raised her in a religious manner and she never went out alone until she joined the university and then later when she was doing aid work.

'Even now, I cannot believe my ex-husband was able to kill our daughter. He wasn't a bad person. During our 24 years of marriage, he was never aggressive. But on that day, he was a different person.'

The mother is now trying to raise enough money to escape abroad. 'I miss my two boys,' she said. 'But they have sent a message saying that I am wrong for defending Rand and that I should go back home and live like a blessed Muslim woman,' said Leila, who is now volunteering with a local organisation campaigning for better protection for women in Basra.

One of those running the organisation, who did not want to be identified, said that Rand's case was similar to so many reported in Basra, with the only difference being she was in love with a foreigner, rather than an Iraqi.

'There isn't too much to say. Rand is dead. It is a tragedy and will be a tragedy for many other families in Iraq in the days to come.

'According to information we have been given, some from Rand's colleague, we have doubts that her love was reciprocated. We have the impression that Rand was in love, but the English soldier wasn't. But, for a girl to be paid nice compliments about her beauty and her intelligence, it was enough for her to think she was in love.

'She isn't here any more for her mother to ask any of the questions she would like to. Rand's case had repercussions because she fell in love with a foreigner. But what about the other girls murdered through "honour" killings because they fell in love with some of a different sect, or lost their virginity, or were forced to become prostitutes?'

Rand's mother used to call her 'Rose'. 'That was my nickname for her because when she was born she was so beautiful,' she said.

'Now, my lovely Rose is in her grave. But, God will make her father pay, either in this world ... or in the world after.'

THIS SIGNATURE HAS NEVER BEEN MORE APPROPRIATE:

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."

I agree with you, WE call it murder but unfortunately the perpetrators call it honour, that's how they justify it in their heads.

I can't believe I am saying this, but surely the British Army could make this animal 'disappear'? And take along time doing it!!!

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."

It is just a sense of powerlessness.
It is just that tis animal has got away with this and is now boasting about it!

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."

YOU DONT KNOW ME, DONT EVEN TRY !!!

New

Cant anyone do anything to this guy? I mean isnt it against some human rights law or something? I hope he steps on a land mineo or something. I mean how can u murder your own daughter??? I just dont get it!

I dream of a better tomorrow where Chickens can cross the Road without having their motives questioned - Unknown

 It is so sad and utterly frustrating that animals like those are tolerated and even feted in any society...what light does that put on the society?
How many of these creatures will be allowed to commit such acts in the future?
I can't even bear to think about it.
It is sickening...those people are the disease of humanity.

It helps to USE the brain, as it is given to you not only for balance.

Alexa

the laws dont make ppl like em stop.. so i wud say nothing surprising in it.. you may hear it again in future..

These people are bloody nutcases......uneducated, ferral people.....an who is going to re-educate them? No one because it is done in the name of 'religion'..

"It is dangerous to be sincere unless you are also stupid."
- George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)

Religion is in the time of the human, and will be the end of humanity

abdulraheem, please explain your comment i'd be interested to hear the other side of the story.......now listen folks! Theres two sides to every story!......mmmm

"It is dangerous to be sincere unless you are also stupid."
- George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)

On whose authority would you be happy to kill a female member of your family for tainting your family's honour?

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."

Nothing whatsoever justifies the intentional taking of a human life!

Anyway i dont care for such swivel,
I have a daughter and i cant believe that anyway and anyone can do this to their own flesh and blood let alone someone elses

But then i cudnt believe the story of the famous austrian nut job either

It all looks so untrue but alas all this still exists because people like to believe that they have a valid reason for doing so,
Be it religion, creed, culture.

In the bitter end what we do is all dependent on our Egos which i believe have run out of control and will go to any lenghts to justify our individual belief systems.

Forgive me for pasting the whole article but just putting a link seems inappropriate to mark this brave woman's sad demise.

Mother who defied the killers is gunned down

Five weeks ago Leila Hussein told The Observer the chilling story of how her husband had killed their 17-year-old daughter over her friendship with a British soldier in Basra. Now Leila, who had been in hiding, has been murdered - gunned down in cold blood. Afif Sarhan in Basra and Caroline Davies report on the final act of a brutal tragedy

Leila Hussein lived her last few weeks in terror. Moving constantly from safe house to safe house, she dared to stay no longer than four days at each. It was the price she was forced to pay after denouncing and divorcing her husband - the man she witnessed suffocate, stamp on, then stab their young daughter Rand in a brutal 'honour' killing for which he has shown no remorse.

Though she feared reprisals for speaking out, she really believed that she would soon be safe. Arrangements were well under way to smuggle her to the Jordanian capital, Amman. In fact, she was on her way to meet the person who would help her escape when a car drew up alongside her and two other women who were walking her to a taxi. Five bullets were fired: three of them hit Leila, 41. She died in hospital after futile attempts to save her.

Her death, on 17 May, is the shocking denouement to a tragedy which had its origins in an innocent friendship between her student daughter, Rand Abdel-Qader, 17, and a blond, 22-year-old British soldier known only as Paul.

The two had met while Rand, an English student at Basra University, was working as a volunteer helping displaced families and he was distributing water. Although their friendship appears to have involved just brief, snatched conversations over four months, Rand had confided her romantic feelings for Paul to her best friend, Zeinab, 19.

She died, still a virgin, four months after she had last seen him when her father, Abdel-Qader Ali, 46, discovered that she had been seen talking 'to the enemy' in public. She had brought shame on his honour, was his defence, and he had to cleanse his family name. Despite openly admitting the murder, he has received no punishment.

It was two weeks after Rand's death on 16 March that a grief-stricken Leila, unable to bear living under the same roof as her husband, found the strength to leave him. She had been beaten and had had her arm broken. It was a courageous move. Few women in Iraq would contemplate such a step. Leila told The Observer in April: 'No man can accept being left by a woman in Iraq. But I would prefer to be killed than sleep in the same bed as a man who was able to do what he did to his own daughter.'

Her words were to prove prescient. Leila turned to the only place she could, a small organisation in Basra campaigning for the rights of women and against 'honour' killings. Almost immediately she began receiving threats - notes calling her a 'prostitute' and saying she deserved to die like her daughter.

Even her sons Hassan, 23, and Haydar, 21, whom she claimed aided their father in their sister's killing, disowned her. Meanwhile, her husband, a former government employee, escaped any charges, and even told The Observer that police had congratulated him on what he had done.

It is not known who killed Leila. All that is known is that she was staying at the house of 'Mariam', one of the women's rights campaigners, whose identity The Observer has agreed not to reveal. On the morning of 17 May, they were joined by another volunteer worker and set off to meet 'a contact' who was to help Leila travel to Amman, where she would be taken in by an Iraqi family.

'Leila was anxious, but she was also happy at having the chance to leave Iraq,' said Mariam. 'Since the death of her daughter, her own life was at serious risk. And this was a great opportunity for her to leave the country and to fight for Iraqi women's rights.

'She had not been able to sleep the night before. I stayed up talking to her about her plans after she arrived in Amman. I gave her some clothes to take with her and she was packing the only bag she had. She was too excited to sleep.'

Mariam said that when she awoke Leila had already prepared breakfast, cleaned her house and even baked a date cake as a thank-you for the help she had been given. After the arrival of 'Faisal', the volunteer (whose identity is also being protected), the three left the house at 10.30am and started walking to the end of the street to get a taxi. They had walked less than 50 metres when they heard a car drive up fast and then gunshots rang out. The attack, said by witnesses to have been carried out by three men, was over in minutes. Leila was hit by three bullets. Mariam was hit in her left arm and Faisal in her left leg. 'I didn't realise I had been shot for a few seconds, because as I heard the gunfire I saw Leila falling to the ground and saw blood pouring from her head,' said Mariam. 'I was so shocked, I didn't immediately feel the pain.'

Two men ran from their homes to help. They rushed Leila to hospital and a passing taxi took the other two. But Leila died at 3.20pm, despite several operations to save her. As she lay in her own hospital bed receiving treatment, Mariam said that she heard someone saying that Leila had been shot in the head. But there were other mutterings that were clearly audible. 'I could hear people talking on the corridors and the only thing that they had to say was that Leila was wrong for defending her daughter's mistakes and that her death was God's punishment.

'In that minute I just had complete hatred in my heart for those who had killed her.'

Police said the incident was a sectarian attack and that there was nothing to link Leila's death to her family. 'Her ex-husband was not in Basra when it happened. We found out he was visiting relatives in Nassiriya with his two sons,' said Hassan Alaa, a senior officer at the local police station in Basra. 'We believe the target was the women activists, rather than Mrs Hussein, and that she was unlucky to be in that place at that time.'

It is plausible. Campaigners for women's' rights are not acceptable to many sections of Iraqi society, especially in Basra where militias have partial control in some districts and impose strict laws on locals, including what clothing they should wear and what religious practice they should follow.

Since February 2006, two other activists from the same women's organisation have been killed in the city. One of them was reportedly raped before being shot. The other, the only man working for the non-governmental organisation (NGO), and a father of five who was responsible for the organisation's finances, was shot five months ago.

There could be many with a grudge against such organisations. However, Mariam believes Leila was targeted, pointing out she had been hit by three bullets. 'When we were shot, they focused on Leila, not us,' she said.

Since the attack the NGO has stopped its work in Basra. 'We daren't answer the phones because we have received so many threats since we gave our support to Leila's case,' said Mariam. 'Most of our members are preparing to leave the city and even Iraq if they can raise the money.'

A single mother since her husband was killed for refusing to join a militia, she too intends to move when she can. Faisal, who also survived her injuries, is still suffering post-surgical infection. She preferred not to speak, but her mother, who wished to remain anonymous, said: 'My daughter is very shocked at what happened, and my two grandsons can't stop crying since they saw her in hospital.'

Leila's burial was arranged within hours of her death by the husband of one of her cousins and Mariam's father.

The Observer visited Rand's father and two brothers at their Basra home, but they refused to talk beyond Hassan proclaiming his father's innocence. When asked if he would be visiting his mother's grave, he shrugged: 'Maybe in the future.'

Leila was an orphan, raised by an uncle who died in the Shia uprising against Saddam Hussein in the early 1990s. Hamida Alaa, 68, a friend of the uncle, said: 'The poor woman was killed and now her name and history is buried with her. No one wants to speak about it. She is just one more woman killed in our country who has already been forgotten by the local society.'

In the last days of her life, Leila was suffering from the pressure of having gone against her husband. 'She was sleeping with the help of sedatives,' said Mariam. 'She would wake up at night with terrible nightmares, even dreaming of being suffocated as her daughter was. She had been threatened so many times and that's why she was so scared. Her indignation over Rand's death is what led her to her own coffin. Their history ends here. But Leila was a hero. A woman who was strong enough to say no to Iraqi men's bad attitudes. Sadly most Iraqi women do not have the same strength and they will stay in their homes.'

Mariam has moved out of her home. But within hours of speaking to The Observer a close friend went to her new address to deliver a message that had been left for her at her front door. It read: 'Death to betrayers of Islam who don't deserve God's forgiveness. Speaking less you will live more.' She believes it was sent by Leila's killers.

'They want this story to be buried with Leila,' she said. 'But I cannot close my eyes to all this.'

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."

"How can religion be so abused????"
I think if you look throughout history it is the default setting and not the exception.

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."

You are right adey.

A sense of humour is just common sense dancing, sadly, common sense has left the building and is dancing somewhere else.
Alexa

too often used as a sheild behind which evil people do evil things in the name of their particular God or Gods

without protection would soon sort the b***ard out, even criminals don't condone this behaviour!!!
Too many wrongs are justified by religion.

what you meant about if anyone touched your little boy, my two sons are 30 & 28 and my daughter is 22 but in my eyes they are still my babies and I would kill to protect them.

This topic is repeated.

"There's good in everyone, sometimes people just get diverted to the wrong path"

Jeez, im so angry now. and i thought today was gonna be a nice calm, winding down day.

.

      http://www.youtube.c...

   "Imagination is more important than knowledge"

am now upset more than I first was, such a beautiful young girl and such brutality, made worse by the fact that people were actually filming this outageous behaviour, a very sad ending indeed to a vibrant young human being

at least most animals hunt and kill for the survival of the species, there is no justification in culture or religion to excuse this behaviour

The only default setting for any human is choice,

What he makes up of this choice is his own decision,

I am a fundamental muslim because i follow the fundamentals of Islam which tells me that the law is not in my Hands but in the hands of the government in power who decide on cases on the basis of the jurisdiction provided by the shariah,

Just like any other country - isnt it?

The rulings may be different, i mean in ur system the rapists, child molesters, murderers are put in safe houses or in other words given a "TIME OUT"

Where as in our system they are hung in public places so that the next guy thinks twice before he makes the same mistake.

But one thing remains common, there are manipulators (Like this nutcase who killed his daughter), who can escape the prisons in ur case and escape the hangings in mine.

Pretty simple now aint it?

Prop

Please don't speak for every Muslim Shuaibkazi. I am a Muslima and I am against the death penalty. And I don't like your sweeping incorrect generalisations of penal systems.

This story makes my heart weep. Why is life so cheap? How can people think they have the right to kill someone? I am thankful every day to have been born where I was born and raised by people who are loving and compassionate.

-------------------------------------

I am not speaking for anybody but the way a legal system works in any country, u have a jurisdiction according to which laws are laid.
Death penalty or no death penalty - a single person on his own cannot become the decision maker. the punishment has to be decided by the Law of the land.

Now according to me the death penalty is the least punishment what some people deserve!
For instance this father,
Who the hell told him that he cud do what he did,

I for one am sure that many in QL would agree with me that the death penalty is a very light punishment for such a person.

I wondered what penal systems you were referring to when you said 'your system' and 'our system'. In 'my system' people are not hung in public places. And if 'your system' meant 'the West' then the penal system is quite different between the UK and the US, for example. There is no death penalty in the UK, but in the US, the death penalty exists in 37 states.

-------------------------------------

Is there a point to ur argument?
I am talking about the shariah rulings in general for crimes such as murder and rape (not being country specific).

What is it that u want to prove by the way?

My generalization may have been misunderstood by you -

"Laws may stipulate different penalties for capital offences but the jurisdiction of each System (Islamic or non islamic) clearly dictates that the decision for penalizing such a crime rests with the Capital body and not any individual"

This is a fact of any System which has a sound doctrine to back it up.

It goes without saying that this is regardless of how u or I feel about it.