are there atheists among the QLers..?

Andrew, yes people hide behind religion in "some instances".. However in the end the problem is the person not the religion.

when the egyptians were drowned when the red sea opened for passage for the israelites? this is genocide.

the crusades? killing millions of "heretics" because they did not acknowledge religion.

aborigines in the pacific, when conquered, became slaves..

so these are just "some instances"..
and there's a big difference between a car related to a person,.. and a religion to a person..

WHo drowned the Eqyptians in the sea?

"I don't think so. Homey don't play dat."
Homey Da Clown

yes, it is bleak.. and can be considered evil, based on religious.. i understand you now. but you see, when talking to an atheist, good and evil is not recognized.. because evil translates religion. so a better term would be, inhumane.. peace brother!!

it is said that the God of the Old testament drowned the egyptians, who were trailing the israelites, when the israelites, being slaves of egyptians, marched out of egypt..

=) it's a way of life. and is based on human consciousness, and atheists, doesn't persuade people to share their unbelief.. well, if you can collectively, derive the thought that religion, is the basis of order in this world, that is because it flourished for centuries.. you know, i bet the religions of your parents, are your religions as well.. "if you are born in indonesia, then you will be a muslim.. from tibet, you might be a buddhist.., in japan a taoist.. in israel, a jew.." you see, we are commanded to accept the religion of our parents.. as if we have no choice during birth.. atheism offers personal freedom.. from standards not created nor set by your conviction.. you are obliged to follow. atheism, can never be compared to religion. they really are not on the same page my friends..

haha yeah hashimozotoyama, he kills us all.. i was just quoting something from the bible.. bout religions.. because, it was mentioned that honor killings are evil. so if someone is a christian and reads in the bible, that his God drowned this egyptians to save the israelites, so it won't be evil? anyway.. that won't matter.. :) any thanks guys for the collision of thoughts!:)

REALLY? That's funny, cause it sounds more like we need God to coexist. And our very nature proves that without His guidance we can't.

Take the laws of physics for example. Wouldn't the universe be in utter chaos if there weren't any rules to regulate it? What keeps our dear planet from veering off course into the heart of our lustrious sun. Now reflect that on human society. The only difference is that we, of all creatures in the world, have to make the choice to follow the laws that God offers us. We don't have to, and that is the basis of accountability that only human beings are burdened with.

In most heavenly religions, angels aren't held accountable because they obey without questioning Gods commands. God named us the cream of His creation because we alone were given the CHOICE to obey or disobey. Hence a human being who voluntarily obeys God and answers His call without having to is already your version 2.0 LOL

that is why an atheist will not debate a theist for this precise reason.. a(means lack)theism(belief)= lack of belief.. an atheist will not simply adhere the reason of a supreme being, because an atheist simply doesn't adhere nor recognize the existence of one.. well, i respect your views and inclinations my friend.. =)

Its like having a student who you want to make into a successful professional. You have what he needs and you know what his potentials are and what can become of him. But you can't do it FOR him, he has to do it himself. You can only offer him your knowledge and advice. Only if he accepts it will he become what you want to see in him. Without freedom of choice this whole scenario doesn't exist.

My point is Andrew, that he didn't impose any order in us by default. Not that he made us bent on cruelty, no. He gave us exclusively the choice to become what we want to become. And the whole universe around us is full of signs of the perfection of His creation and that if we follow the path He which He conveyed to us through numerous prophets, then we will become perfect too. And for that He offered us the reward of eternal life in bliss and happiness after the universe fades away after having fulfilled the purpose which it was created for.

I think we've reached the point in our discussion where we see and understand one another's arguments, but don't feel compelled to believe them.

Seriously, I do see your reasoning, Hashim, and I can see why you think the way you do.

Can I turn your argument on its head for a second and say that maybe God created man with a desire for doing 'bad' things (like the way children desire sweets) but with a deeper, ingrained knowledge that they should really do 'good' things (like when adults grow up and stop eating at MacDonalds).

So assuming that the above is true, and that God did make man with a fundamental knowledge of what's right and wrong, we could say that although an Atheist refuses to accept the existence of a higher God, he is still hardwired to believe in the right and wrong things that God has programmed within him.

In which case:

Acknowledging a belief in God will not make you a good or bad person, because inherent within you is a desire to good things.

all these Suicide bombers claim to do it in the name of their God.

And if yer wanna leave Religion outta this thread, then the simple question was, " Are there any Atheists in QL" and the one word answer is Yes !

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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM

In that context, an atheist is one who doesn't believe that you have to learn from a teacher who knows more than you and can lead you to become something better. But if you do become an engineer and then you and design ballistic missles, don't blame your university professor LOLOLOLOL

God becomes neccessary when it comes to the essence of humanity. Loving for your fellow human being what you love for yourself. Being kind to the weak and poor, to your wife and children, to your parents and to your neighbors. And God chose the best of us to reveal His guidance to them and convey it to the rest of us. Before revelation all the prophets were known by society to be the most virtuous and humble people. The pagans of Mekkah called Muhammed the "Honest and Trustworthy" before revelation and called upon his judgement to settle their disputes. Jesus was known to be the most compassionate man of his days. Moses was known to be the most just man in his society. And ultimately, God becomes neccessary when He calls us to rise from our graves and answer to Him what we did with our freedom to choose between right and wrong.

Just to answer your question thexonic, I am a muslim. And Muhamed taught us that God, or Allah in arabic, Jahwe in Hebrew, etc. sent Gabriel to all the prophet to reveal the same basic message: submit your will to Me, Worship Me and thank Me for what I have given you. Obey My law to your own benefit and I wil reward you and thank you for that. Muslims believe in the prophethood of all previous prophets and regard them with the highest respect.

Mr. Paul, isn't atheism an argument about God?

Paul, that was the original question but this thread kind of changed mid way through. So why do you seemed so bothered?

"I don't think so. Homey don't play dat."
Homey Da Clown

" my religion is better than yours " story that we get on here. Thats all.
To be honest, im getting a bit sick of all that type of stuff, it seems never ending !

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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM

I have been careful not to offend the religions of any participants, even if it might be atheism. And I assure you that I'm not asserting "my religion as being better than yours". I just believe that if we all have a correct understanding of each others stand point, maybe we can coexist better and understand our differences and points of agreement. Who knows, we might even reach a resolution and unanimously declare that God exists ;)

Good point Brit.

"I don't think so. Homey don't play dat."
Homey Da Clown

being an atheist is being brave. without leaning on to something in times of crisis, must really really be a test of strength. and i believe, atheists are strong people. no whining. no ranting. no finger pointing, or blaming as to who or why things happened in his life. its much much simpler to think that way. other than saying.. "it might be for a certan reason.."

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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM

I think its more unsettling to believe that there is no reason behind all that exists around us. If you see a cool lamborghini, don't you praise the designer? And when you see a universe full of perfect order, so perfect that we need volumes of science books to describe the laws governing it and keeping everything in place, how can't we wonder about its designer?

I'm not getting in a debate about it, but you asked. So yes: there are atheists in Qatar. I have nothing to add that wouldn't sound like Dawkins rhetoric.

"If you're going to believe in crap than you might as well be living in it"

We only sleep well at night because we know that tomorrow's another day, the sun will rise we'll breathe fresh air and go about our business taking for granted all that makes our lives possible. Don't we have to thank someone for having done such a great job that we don't even have to think about these things?

Thats cos there is no one to thank.

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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM

Personally, I like to thank the year 10 alien student whose science project we are ;P

In saying "Oh my God" when in trouble there is an inherent addmission that only He has the power to ward of what you fear might befall you. I don't think that would be annoying. After all, we as human beings are the only creatures with the intellectual capacity to recognise the order in our universe and to appreciate it and indulge in debates such as this one about whether a Creator exists or not.

with neither side able to prove either way, but as time is marching on, i have to bow out now, as i have an appointment with Wranglers wild west bar, for a meeting with MR John Smiths Bitter.

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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM

Im out drinking.

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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM

I agree with you on that man98. I think this thread has run out of thread :) So stay safe and I wish you all a pleasant evening.

Ok I can't possibly read all 111 posts that I missed, but a big thing I need to point out is that honour killings and female circumsion are cultural and predate Islam HOWEVER when Islam was introduced it was actually adapted to justify these acts and it's only in the last 50 or so years that people have even started questioning that they were wrong and the reason for that has NOTHING to do with religion and everything to do with ideas of feminism coming from the the West, which forced Muslim clerics to question these acts and subsequently condemn them. In fact if it hadn't been greater awareness of Human Rights these atrocities would still be happening (and still are).

The Big 3 Current Religions have been around for 3000 years, the idea that honour killings are wrong for 50. Boy, religion takes it's sweet time doesn't it. :P

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i was an atheists until....i realised i am the GOD.

Unfortunately, yes. There have to be some here or there, but doesn't change the fact that they're low in population.

a roman catholic priest..

Gypsy it is not that religion took its time. It is not about western feminism "changing or saving women from other parts of the world". It is about the simple fact that a cultural practice when clung to is very difficult to uproot. People will cling to any excuse to continue practing a cultural act that they like. That is why this practice as you noted continues until the day. That is not the fault of religion, rather it is the fault of ignorant people using the religion as an excuse to continue a heinous custom.

"I don't think so. Homey don't play dat."
Homey Da Clown

Nothing has completely stopped these practices because people are going to do what they want to do. So for those who wanted to abandon the practice whether they used religion or education they have left it and in turn spoken out against it. The rest aren't interested in change and no matter how you approach them they don't feel a need to do so.

"I don't think so. Homey don't play dat."
Homey Da Clown

I don't think anyone said religion put a stop to it. What was said is that this practice is an extreme example of people using their own moral compasses to decide for themselves what is right and what is wrong.

"I don't think so. Homey don't play dat."
Homey Da Clown

Trying to use my own words against me eh? :) I was trying to say that religion helped to address these issues not erradicate them.
I also don't think that education as a polar opposite to religion. I think religion is education for our souls. So in my opinion education and religion helped to lessen the problem.

"I don't think so. Homey don't play dat."
Homey Da Clown

Well, thankfully you said them and now you've clarified what you've said. And I agree, I think religion, for when it was created, was a moral catalyst for society and did start the long and winding path to our current ideas about Human Rights, etc.

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Gypsy said I think being an atheist ...
I think being an atheist means you know A LOT about religion and because of that have chosen to reject it.

Thank you for making me realise that lots of knowledge is of no use unless you 've got...errmmm guidance ...hehe....i didn't say you were mis-guided(or mebbe i did):p

When I wrote 'agnostic' under religion on my employment form in Qatar, no-one knew what it meant :)

See link below for definition:-

http://www.google.co...

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"Every adult of sound mind, should be able to choose to do whatever they want, as long as they cause no harm to others".

Well dmightysolomon shouldn't have used such a silly analogy.

Desertmoon...um...ok :S

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