Woman in burqa excluded

even though i think this is discrimination. i think she should wear normal hijab if she is facing difficult in that place or leave the country.

Poverty is not for the sake of hardship. No, it is there because nothing exists but God. Poverty unlocks the door -- what a blessed key!

- Jalaluddin al-Rumi

Well as everyone says here, she needs to respect the culture she's in, and in Western culture, things like facial expression and eye contact are very important.

Is it really discrimination or is it really any different to saying a girl can't wear a mini skirt in Saudi??
Sometimes I think the discrimination card is a card which only gets played in one direction.

just eat another pie

Where does it all stop?

today they say face should be visible, tomm they may say Thighs should be visible?

A Instructor imparts training and should stick to that. Sick attitude of westerners can't exploit muslim women like their own women so they discriminate.

good point pieman..... im wit u on that...

Clearly this woman needs to spend some time familiarizing herself with French history and French law, assuming she can read French, that is.

This is like the American service woman who tried to claim that while living in Saudi Arabia she suffered religious discrimination because she wasn't allowed to eat pork or wear her typical western clothes.

Why can't people just show a little respect for their host countries and stop being so damn intolerant?

recieve a huge compensation claim....

Like whats happenng in the UK all the time.

.

NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM

Since when has it been the claim to fame in France??? To be honest I always thought France's claim to fame was it's intolerance of anyone who wasn't French, didn't speak French and didn't have a certain French "style"

What is the relationship between teaching a language and the facial expression of a student? They will teach a student who has got very bad scars due to some accidents who will not be able to show her expression oh face? How come they are asking the student to be democratic and broadminded when they are not?

There should be no exceptions.

.

NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM

Doesn't it strike you as totally hypocritical to imply that French people just enjoy bashing Muslims (this despite the fact that France is home to Europe's largest muslim population) while at the same time you make comments like:

"I am biased against the French. Met too many while in Germany and they all sucked."

So... "all" French people suck, and that is a valid statement of face, and that's okay, because clearly all French people bash muslims?

rami you got it!
______________________________________________
Brazilian Jujitsu in Qatar
http://iloveqatar.ne...

The expression in English is 'when in Rome do as the Romans do'.
We as westeners go to other countries to live and work, and I don't just mean middle east countries, and we don't really expect any special treatment to be applied to us just because we are from the west. I think when other nations go to the west to live they should also go along with the culture, rules, regulations etc of that country. Its a two way thing basically.
I think if this were to happen you would actually see a reduction in the number of incidents which fall under the 'racist' etc banners because people do get peed off when the percieve the dice to be loaded against them in their own country.

just eat another pie

Cherukkan, As someone who taught English, yes it is very important to be able to see the face, especially the mouth.

Also in case no one's every noticed, women who wear full niqab often speak much quieter (little about a whisper if at all). I can see this getting irritating to a teacher.

I wrote this:

"Doesn't it strike you as totally hypocritical to imply that French people just enjoy bashing Muslims"

Look up 'imply' in the dictionary.

Abu......I don't want to get into a slanging match but of course everywhere in the world people will moan and complain. Thats just another part of human nature.
You will find in reality I am one of the most tolerant people in the world, despite my occasional moans and groans.
I certainly would not, despite my moans and groans, ever expect any country I visit to to positivly discriminate in my favour. I will always try and fit in. All I'm saying is that people who visit my country should try and fit in too.
Far too often in the west the race card is played, along with the religeon card and any other cards which come to hand and often the people who play these cards are better off and have more freedom than they had in their own country. And note, this whole thing from me is not aimed at muslims in particular. There are plenty of other religeons who can be seen to bend the rules, take advantage etc etc.

just eat another pie

That's about right Abu. The west and the east are different and thats life.
Some kind of common sense needs to be applied to life.
Everything in life needs a bit of give and take, regardless of where you come from or what you believe.I'm sure if people took this line a lot of grief could be avoided.
(same has to be said for some of these threads on here:))

just eat another pie

Rami...because people will claim that the West is free and open, where as Saudi isn't....and because the West is putting their foot down on certain things,that freedom is claimed to be non existent...by people having to adjust to living in the West.

You mess with the cat, you get the claws....

alexa these changes are recent. It hasn't always been like this.
______________________________________________
Brazilian Jujitsu in Qatar
http://iloveqatar.ne...

I was referring to this statement:

"Pie I hear you man, but indeed the west is built upon different principles than most middle eastern states so I find it insulting to my intelligence to use the logic that mini skirts in Saudi are comparable to this situation."

Alexa, by pointing out that both are examples of discriiminiation and repressesion, they are similiar.

What is your reasoning to say that they are so disimiliar?

Well Abu...it would have been an issue, it is actually illegal.
What I think is this.....if all people who live in a country other than their home country, would try to assimilate, multiculturism would work. But only then.

You mess with the cat, you get the claws....

the article does not give a source for the original piece.
There is too little info here to make a judgement.
I would be guessing but this is how it could possibly have played out:

Woman attends course on French language for her citizenship application, which she does not legally need to remain in the country as she is married to a French national.

Instructor asks her to remove face covering in order to help gauge her learning.

Student refuses citing religious/cultural reasons.

Instructor informs her that as a Government institution secular values apply and any religious objections would not be upheld.

Student still refuses.

The Language Institution offers her place to the next in line(as there is bound to be a waiting list).

Woman complains about discrimination on religious grounds.

Institution denies this and restates its position on the matter to her.

She takes the matter to a court or Arbitrary body (it's not clear) of some such (maybe for automatic restoration onto the course or for monetary compensation, or both)

Court finds that she was not discriminated against upon religious grounds as equality in a secular Government Institution trumps all before it. Her religious/cultural views were impacting on someone else's place on the course. And if she chooses to become a French Citizen she has to abide by it's rules and "republican values”.

Maybe, maybe not? Too little info to judge, just a scenario.

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."

In my opinion, social progress to a tolerant and 'Free' society is the primary contributor to their success.

Now, these societies are regressing under threat from terrorism. Which is a victory for the anarchists.

They are forcing the great nations of the world to give up the essence of their grandeur.

Sad indeed.

In a BMW advertisement:

A BMW car & in front of it a girl in bikini !!!

The caption on the photograph:
"Test drive her now !!!"

I ask: what does this means ??? who to test drive ? the girl or the car ?!!!

What has a girl in bikini to do in an advert for a car???

What kind of western culture is this which sells its mothers & sisters in the name of liberty & liberalisation ???

In reality this is not liberty but the exploitation of the womankind!!! Exploitation of the highest order.

If such is the culture, then all I would say from the deepest corner of my heart is: God save us from such a nudist culture.

Big Deal...'tis not your sister, wife or mother...so what is the big deal ?
If the girl in the advert does not mind, why do you?

You mess with the cat, you get the claws....

"A recent study made by a British insurance company revealed that women are aroused by the sound of some cars’ engines. But don’t imagine that if you accelerate your Volkswagen Polo you’ll get ladies all crazy about you. Because, actually, the Polo engine sound has the exact opposite effect. No, we’re talking about the engine sound from cars like Maserati, Ferrari and Lamborghini. Yup, we know, it’s shocking, but it’s the truth. Women love expensive, powerful cars. Who would’ve thought?

The study consisted of a 20-minute tape with cars being revved that was played to a group of male and female volunteers. After that the saliva of the volunteers was collected and tested for testosterone levels. The most significant increase in testosterone level for women were reported after listening to Maserati and for men after the Lamborghini part. Unfortunately, bad news for VW Polo owners. The sound of Polo’s engine, not only it didn’t increase testosterone levels, but this actually dropped."

http://www.autounlea...

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."

Look I have taught veiled ladies for over 5years... in a class of 15 i would often have twelve who wore a niqab...

Sorry but absolute bollix that a covered face hinders languge learning...I would love to testify to that in a French court...

What hinders is stupidity and personal attitude...

Oh well we will have to agree to disagree...:)

I still think the hinderance comes from attitude and not clothes.

Echo,
pls can u explain ur word conservatism, i couldn't understand.
Issue is regarding burqa, yes it is true expatriates should follow rules of country in which they are living or else they should leave the country.
and same thing should consider while french or western peoples lives in asia or middle east, why their NGO's and so called HUman rights interfers in these socities and laws.

They are just a bunch of racist assholes

Serlena Wardman
South Africa
Durban

people has to respect the rules where they are .

France is a real democracy ............

Donno about phonetics, but (as someone who has been a lecturer for a while)I would be extremely uncomfy with having a faceless person in my class. Its like an identity thing. No face, no identity. I cant associate identity with a black outline with no face.

Same at workplace, If I'm recruiting someone, i would anyday prefer someone with a face (no matter what religion they follow) over someone whose face is not visible.

As for France, I do not see anything wrong if they insist that anyone who wants to go there should accept their culture. If someone cant do that, there are lotsa other places in the world they can choose from.

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What a caterpiller calls the end of the world, the MASTERS call it a Butterfly!!