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Britain - Hindus want Open Air Funeral Pyres.
This is what makes Britain Great!!!!!!!!!
A spiritual healer from Newcastle is battling at the High Court to lift the ban on outdoor cremations in Britain.
The single-storey council house in Gosforth, a suburb of Newcastle upon Tyne, looks just like any other prefab in the quiet cul-de-sac. Only when Davender Kumar Ghai's door bell is pressed and Sanskrit chants echo through the house are visitors made aware that this is not just a home, it is a living, breathing temple.
The 69-year-old Hindu spiritual healer has remained little known outside his band of devoted Hindu and Sikh followers. But should Mr Ghai's court action prove successful he may soon be acknowledged as the man responsible for the biggest shake-up of Britain's cremations laws in more than a century.
Mr Ghai, who was born in Uganda, will travel to the High Court next month to try to challenge a decision by Newcastle City Council denying him the right to an open-air cremation when he dies. His lawyers will argue that outdoor cremations fall outside of the 1902 Cremation Act, which regulates what goes on inside a crematorium but does not explicitly forbid outdoor burnings.
Speaking exclusively to The independent Mr Ghai, dressed in simple woollens and sitting on a throne of sculpted skulls, explained why he felt legal action is necessary. "The Hindus of Britain have never asked for anything," he said, running his hands through a thick, white beard. "But we're not asking for much, just to cremate our loved ones in the way our religion says it must be done."
In South Asia the vast majority of cremations for Hindus and Sikhs are held outdoors, often on the banks of a river that has been deemed holy. Although widely practised in the Sikh faith, outdoor cremations are not considered compulsory.
In Hinduism, however, there is more widespread agreement that the 4,000-year-old practice of open-air burning is the most spiritually appropriate way to release a soul from the body following death. Many Hindus believe that mechanical cremations lead to akal mrtyu (a bad death), where the soul is forced to mingle with other souls because it has not been able to escape.
"Open-air cremations are our birth right and our religious right," explained Mr Ghai. "The soul has to be released from the skull and allowed to go straight up into the air. Muslims and Jews have been given their own graveyards, they have been allowed to deal with their dead according to their religious needs but Hindus have been ignored." His lawyers will cite a number of precedents where outdoor cremations were either held with the support of the state or went ahead and were not prosecuted.
Andrew Singh Dogan, a former barrister who acts as legal co-ordinator for the society, believes Mr Ghai's fight mirrors that of William Price, a Welshman who successfully campaigned for the legalisation of cremations at the end of the 19th century.
"it took a while for Britain to accept the idea of cremations but nowadays we live in a society where more people are cremated than buried," he said. "I think once people understand what really happens during an open-air cremation they'll realise there is nothing to fear. We will come to accept them just like we learnt to accept normal cremations. it's not like we want to put some pyre on the banks of the Tyne, we'd find a space that is wholly private and away from public eyes where people who want to grieve next to the body of their loved ones can do so."
One of the difficulties Mr Ghai's followers face is resistance from leaders within their own community. Sikh and Hindu faith groups have been reluctant to show their support for his legal battle. The Hindu Academy has called open-air cremations an "antiquated practice" whilst the Hindu Council has also said that it does not support outdoor pyres. Only the Hindu Forum of Britain has made statements in support of the idea. its secretary general, Ramesh Kallidai, said: "Those who wish to exercise this choice of open-air funeral pyres in order to feel that they have done their religious obligation for their parents should be allowed, provided two conditions are fulfilled: that it does not break any law in this country and that it does not endanger anybody else in the vicinity in terms of health and safety."
Mr Ghai said that enough Hindus and Sikhs in Britain believe that open-air cremations are a vital part of their religion. "I believe a person should be able to live according to their religious beliefs and that we should accommodate that as long as it does not harm others," he said. "I cannot see how open air cremations in a private place away from the public gaze could harm anyone."
The Independent
Alexa said
Simple...he can have his ...Simple...he can have his dead body shipped to where he came from and have it burned in the open air there.
You mess with the cat, you get the claws....
Scarlett said
I have to agree... ...the smell of burning flesh is repugnant and disgusting...and it is NOT the custom of the country in which he lives, so he should not impose his religious beliefs (and burnt flesh smells) upon the countrymen of Britian.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
svelte_saggi said
it's not right trying to ...it's not right trying to impose a certain country's/religion's culture and customs on a foreign land.....i believe such things ought to be done where it is not looked down upon and will face no problems....like in their own home country....
and burial/cremation of the dead is like the last respects given to the departed soul.....why fight even at the last moment?these things are to be done in peace and tranquility.....
Keep smiling!
Saggi!
britexpat said
Funny thing is that I recently read an article which said that ...in India, many rotting corpses are seen floating down the Ganges, because the people could not afford the costs of a full pyre or the pyre went out..
Alexa said
Oh nice.....don't people ...Oh nice.....don't people wash themselves and their laundry etc. in that water???
You mess with the cat, you get the claws....
Scarlett said
um its also used for ...drinking water...
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Gypsy said
I agree. It's so stuffy in ...I agree. It's so stuffy in those crematoriums, must be very uncomfortable for the people getting roasted.
Scarlett said
well gypsy... ...did you ever figure out what to wear to a creamation? I know it was one of your big worries a while back..
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Winn said
"Many Hindus believe that ..."Many Hindus believe that mechanical cremations lead to akal mrtyu (a bad death), where the soul is forced to mingle with other souls because it has not been able to escape. "
Utter crap!! the term means untimely/early demise (as in a young person's)and not 'bad death'. Even if it was, How in hell can a cremation (which happens AFTER death)lead to any death, bad or good!!DUh!! Whoever said this is certifiably nuts!!
Brit: I think the news item abt corpses is pretty old...coz now there is a major movt to clean up the river which has a pivotal role in the ecological balance of the region.
---------------------------------------------
What a caterpiller calls the end of the world, the MASTERS call it a Butterfly!!
svelte_saggi said
brit.... ...that's not right.....the part about corpses floating on the ganges is true.but u must know the whole story to comment on it.....
they are not just rotting corpses....call them half-burnt bodies.that would be more like it.it is believed that getting cremated on the banks of the ganges and having your ashes immersed in the holy river grants you freedom from taking future births.and it was done with utmost sincerity in days of yore.however,the entire process has become wholly commercialised now added to the huge influx of people bringing in their dead kin to the same spot everyday.
it seems to save on wood and time,once the corpse is half burnt,the guy who own the 'cremation point' tosses the half-burnt body into the water to make way for the next 'customer'!sad....
it a well known fact that the ganges is kept clean by the numerous fresh water tortoises that live in it.they feed on these corpses and the water is kept perpetually clean(well,to a certain extent,at least).otherwise,with the rate of people being brought there,the river would be a stinking pool of dead bodies by now.....!
Keep smiling!
Saggi!
Gypsy said
No I just cant' Scarlett, I ...No I just cant' Scarlett, I mean what does one want to be burnt wearing...I'm still thinking red or orange would be good colours though.
svelte_saggi said
winn.... ...u came in at the right time,buddy! :-D and yeah,i got pretty annoyed seeing the 'akal mrityu' bit.....coz if my sanskrit/hindi knowledge is right even to a meagre extent,akal certainly doesn't mean 'bad'....
Keep smiling!
Saggi!
Alexa said
Svelte.....please tell me ...Svelte.....please tell me you are not serious...please!
You mess with the cat, you get the claws....
Scarlett said
but svelte... ...regardless of how many turtles, fish or other marine life feed upon the half burnt corpse...fact is, there is STILL flesh upon the bones and that rots, leading to bacteria and illnesses...
Most everyone understands the basis behind the creamation however, why should one person impose their own religious beliefs upon another country and their citizens?
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
svelte_saggi said
gypsy.... ...FYI....hindus are burnt with only a new white blanket covering their bodies
Keep smiling!
Saggi!
Winn said
But as I said elsewhere ...But as I said elsewhere before, I would anyday prefer a hi-voltage electric stuff to pyres!! so much cleaner , less messy n gone in a flash!!
--------------------------------------------
What a caterpiller calls the end of the world, the MASTERS call it a Butterfly!!
Scarlett said
well gypsy... ...since the deceased would be wearing white it would be in very poor taste to attend wearing white also...especially after Labor Day...so perhaps the red and orange would work after all.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Scarlett said
winn...you made me laugh... ...reminds me of those squirrels back home that cross the electrical lines and you hear this loud BANG...and the lights go out all over the street...toasted squirrel...and my dogs would run to see if they could be the first to find the body so they could carry it around until I grabbed it from them..
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Gypsy said
Oh and hear I thought you ...Oh and hear I thought you were talking about what I would wear when I get cremated.
svelte_saggi said
alexa....scarlett.... ...alexa....no babe,i ain't joking....meant every word of it....
scarlett....i'm not sure if you know of this fact.but almost in all hindu homes,tiny sealed copper pitchers of water from the ganges are kept at the prayer place.this is used at the time of a death in the family,when the person on the deathbed is given the water to drink as a last intake.the water stays clean and pure for years on end.i know we have 5-6 little pitchers at home and nothing's happened to them.when my grandpa passed away 28 years ago,one of the pitchers that was brought down during the times of my great-grand dad was broken and the water was given to him....
so,tell me......can u tell me why the water that is just taken (read dipped,filled and sealed) from a "filthy river" can stay so pure for so long?so there is some kind of natural balance involved there.no denying that....plus u also have to consider that this custom has been going on since time immemorial.
Keep smiling!
Saggi!
Scarlett said
no you silly... ...see how things get misconstrued???
Now on that note...I'd wear whatever I didn't want my hubby's 2nd wife to get her hands on... ;)
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Winn said
LOL Scarlett! in some places ...LOL Scarlett! in some places I think they put red silk on the body!! (What a waste I say!!)
But this guy seriously needs to take one long walk!! Like, if he is so interested in a traditional cremation, why does he want to do it in a foreign land? Let em fly him home n cremate him wherever!!
On second thoughts, I guess this guy is just after some cheap publicity (which relegious fights can bring you any day) so that he can increase the strength of his confused souls brigade.
----------------------------------------------
What a caterpiller calls the end of the world, the MASTERS call it a Butterfly!!
Winn said
BBQ'd squirrels ...courtesy ...BBQ'd squirrels ...courtesy : Electricity Dept!!
-------------------------------------------
What a caterpiller calls the end of the world, the MASTERS call it a Butterfly!!
Scarlett said
svelte... ...I never said it was filthy..I was going on biologically speaking. I don't care WHERE water comes from, if there is flesh in it, human or otherwise, the water will have bad bacteria in it.
You may believe as you wish, but think on this..the water you said is kept for so long, is given to the DYING person...how do you know its safe to drink, since the person is already dying? Just curious. I'm not slamming your religion or beliefs, I just know biologically that its impossible for bacteria not to be in the water with rotting flesh. I would be very interested to get a sample and get it tested in a lab to see the results.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
svelte_saggi said
winn.... ...have i told you of the time when a lady i know was taken to the electric crematorium after her death and the system kinda went beserk causing the shutter to open half-way thru the process and the onlookers (her husband,her brothers and some others close of kin) had to witness the gruesome sight of her body being burnt.the operator guy had to turn off the mains,call in the electrician to repair the system and the system was back to work after a while.now all this while,the shutter is open and the half-roasted body's stench kinda filled up the room it seems.they got the 'ashes' after 3 hours!
now tell me......d'you still think 'gone is flash' is such a good idea after all?machines can get faulty at all the wrong times,y'know!
Keep smiling!
Saggi!
Scarlett said
winn...sorry just got a mental image of that squirrel... ...what the F...BZZZZZZRKKKKKK!!!! Ok I think I need a nap...I'm getting silly now..
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
charanmafiriyals said
svelte_saggi - I sat on the ...svelte_saggi - I sat on the the river banks of "Jamuna" just last month :)
Ban Spoon Feeding not Me
Winn said
Scarlett: The toxic ...Scarlett: The toxic effluents from the garment factories in Mathura area (which has also caused black spots on Taj Mahal's dome and are being closed own coz of eco concerns)can kill any living organism...guaranteed!!
Rest assured about bacteria.
-------------------------------------------------
What a caterpiller calls the end of the world, the MASTERS call it a Butterfly!!
svelte_saggi said
scarlett.... ...that's india for you,honey!sometimes mysterious facts defy the facts of science.and about the water getting medically tested....india's got no dearth of atheists and such tests have been conducted time and again.and each time,crazy as it may sound,the water gets declared 'fit for drinking'.....beat that!
india is a land known for such things.....for us,it's nothing new....just a part of life.
Keep smiling!
Saggi!
Winn said
Saggi:Just coz one machine ...Saggi:Just coz one machine in some undermaintained crematorium malfunctioned , why should I be against that. The solution is in proper engineering of the stuff. n yeah I know the kinda place you are talkin abt. Those old,shady run down ones...spiff em up, put some better gadgets n you can fly(burn, i mean) bizness class...woohooo!!
--------------------------------------------
What a caterpiller calls the end of the world, the MASTERS call it a Butterfly!!
Winn said
Scarlett: Sympathise with ...Scarlett: Sympathise with you on the 'rare' squirrel! Those guys shd hav put circuit breakers of higher ratings and all there wud hav been wud be some ashes scattered to the wind n no body!!
---------------------------------------------
What a caterpiller calls the end of the world, the MASTERS call it a Butterfly!!
svelte_saggi said
winn..... ...never trust any machine completely....afterall,they're just a MACHINE!'biznezz clazzzz' or not!
Keep smiling!
Saggi!
Winn said
Yep,ne'r trust ...Yep,ne'r trust machines...always have interlocks n backups.even if there is a power outage, the body shud remain within...so no sight, no smell. and when power is back, poof again!!
Btw, shall all of us stop using machines (like lets say cars, computers etc)coz they 'can'or 'might' malfunction??intrsting thought...or NOT! I'd rathr drive to my office than walk...uh!
What a caterpiller calls the end of the world, the MASTERS call it a Butterfly!!
Scarlett said
well what's regulation drinking water to some ...is considered toxic to others..and as far as miracles happening in India..they also happen all over the world...its not just there.
Still would like to see the test results..
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
bubbly08 said
I feel that it is wrong to ...I feel that it is wrong to try and impose your beliefs in a country where no one understands you or your customs...He should have just flwon back to his homeland for the cremation...
But scarlett,i do feel that you have made a lot of derogatory remakrs bout the whole cremation thing-its is a very religious and sacred act for the Indians-has been from time immemorial-I think it was a tad too much on your part to say stuff like "rotting flesh" about something that is part of religious beliefs-most of the remakrs made by you are very derogatory-and it would be great if you could just keep quiet and not say anything even if you feel so-where somebody else's religious beliefs are concerned
Scarlett said
bubbly, you read me wrong. ...and I certainly do not appreciate your comment that I could just keep quiet..
I meant nothing against the religious part with the rotting flesh...its fact...
so why not keep quiet until you know someone...
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Alexa said
Svelte..I seriously hope ...Svelte..I seriously hope that water is not the reason those people die.....
And about a splutter/stutter in the funeral fire thingy...i mean seriously...is not quite common that electricity does not run very smoothly over there?
You mess with the cat, you get the claws....
someonenew said
Bubbly I dont think Scarlett ...Bubbly I dont think Scarlett was derogatory at all, she just did not know the importance of these rituals you're talking about. Its a typical reaction from a person like her who's from the other side of the world, comon ur just tryin to sensationalize the issue.
I dream of a better tomorrow where Chickens can cross the Road without having their motives questioned - Unknown
marhabtain said
B&Q The hindu Setion? ...Yes Madam, you will find them in the Barbeque section next to charcoal Hic Yippee, Yippeee, its GORDONS gin for me!
WINNER Gordons Gin Personal Consumption Award 2008 Hic!
Scarlett said
thank you someonenew... ...you kow I would never do that intentionally.
Yes, I joke about a lot of things, sometimes get myself in trouble, but wouldn't ever do it with a mean thought...
I mean some of the things we do back home, I'm sure people from the other side of the world think are absolutely stupid...and I even joke about those too!
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Alexa said
bubbly...and who are YOU to ...bubbly...and who are YOU to tell people to be quiet? Have you, by any chance, noticed that this is a forum and people tend to post here what they think? If you have a problem with that, then maybe YOU are in the wrong place.
Think about that....if you can.
You mess with the cat, you get the claws....
bubbly08 said
Im not trying to ...Im not trying to sensationalize anything-i just felt bad about the way she's written-okay,so she's from the other side of the world-then why comment on something you dont know the value of?that's all I was trying to say-I have no interest in getting any kind of publicity or in sensationalizing anything
but i just felt that its not right to comment on something religious-would the people "from the other side of the world" take it if we started commenting on their beliefs?I think not...
Alexa said
Hmmm, if that kind of thing, ...Hmmm, if that kind of thing, as per thread, does happen, or is fought for to happen, on the other side of the world...well, what do you THINK will happen? Duh!
You mess with the cat, you get the claws....
Scarlett said
bubbly... ...this is what a forum is all about...to talk to others from the "other side of the world"...and no we won't always agree nor think what others do is right or even intelligent at times...that's what makes the world go round.
I can and will comment on religious themes...and I have the right to do so, just as you do.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
bubbly08 said
Alexa-I am just someone who ...Alexa-I am just someone who believes very strongly and stands by some of those customs that have been spoken of so lightly of in this topic
I may be nobody to ask anyone to keep quiet-but its not right to comment on religious beliefs-its just not-maybe its stupid on my part to expect someone like YOU to understand anything bout beliefs :)
Scarlett said
I am sorry if you feel bad when reading things that ...don't go as you'd like, but honey, you need to learn to thicken up your skin if you are to get along in this world because its a HUGE place with many many religions and viewpoints.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Scarlett said
utohh...bubbly, you just declared war... ...alexa...whoa.....
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Alexa said
Well, I certainly do not ...Well, I certainly do not understand much of corpses floating on rivers and tortoises eating the remains..but other than that, no worries, am doing rather well, beliefwise, that is.
You mess with the cat, you get the claws....
bubbly08 said
Disccusion is one thing ...Disccusion is one thing scarlett-I dont expect you to understand-but like i said earlier-why do you want to hurt someone's religious beliefs by commenting on things you dont know about?
I absolutely agree with you that you have a right to your opinion-just keep them to yourself and try not to put others down is all Im saying-a forum is also about respecting other's be;iefs right?you dont havce to agree with them-but you can at least respect the fact that there are others who do?
Alexa said
OMG.....if you believe in ...OMG.....if you believe in burning people and floating them on rivers...fine, that is your thing then....but hey, if anybody does find that unsanitary....which, knowing a bit about India, it is...than why are you upset when people mention that? Man,,,, this getting weirder and weirder...who, in God;s name ARE you people? Common sense lost, or what?
You mess with the cat, you get the claws....
bubbly08 said
I have no intentions of ...I have no intentions of going to war with anybody -peace to all :)
Yes scarlett,I know there are a lot of religions in this world-i respect everybody's beliefs-i have stayed in quite a few countries in this world-and i have always adopted the godd I see in every religion-as i would accept my own-and when i didnt agree with something-I just ignored it-didnt go about saying what i didnt like-thats all
someonenew said
bubbly relax! Think of it ...bubbly relax! Think of it objectively. Really dont u think kissing a guy just coz ur standing under a mistle toe(spelling) is slightly over the top? Thats something they do. She was talking scientifically. Why do you think British gov has banned cremating bodies in open air? Its most probabaly something scientific. So lots of issues we can discuss in the topic. This is a public forum , the article was posted by someone who's not a Hindu and the incident did not happen in India so I think we should be more tolerant of other people views.
I dream of a better tomorrow where Chickens can cross the Road without having their motives questioned - Unknown
marhabtain said
What make a Bubble disappear? ...A prick. No offence. Yeah right. Hic!Yippee, Yippeee, its GORDONS gin for me!
WINNER Gordons Gin Personal Consumption Award 2008 Hic!
bubbly08 said
Ok alexa-thats carrying it a ...Ok alexa-thats carrying it a little too far-You are commenting on Indians as a whole now-but then thats your level-I wont lower myself to your level-If you feel great by putting down a particular race and feel great about it-go ahead thats your way of thinking-cant expect YOU people to understand anything bout values and customs anyway :))
britexpat said
svelte_saggi ...So you agree that theer are corpses floating around oin the Ganges..
From what I've read , the Ganges is not really clean and the turtles have become a danger to the bathers and locals..
Anyway, the post was about the Hindus wanting open air pyres in the Uk..
I personaly do not go along with it.. Perhaps a special building like a crematorium with open air cremation facilities.... But not totally open air..
Alexa said
Naaa, not Indians as a ...Naaa, not Indians as a whole...people like you....who tell others to be quiet....who can't it stand if people talk about things that you see differently...simply put...mainly YOU.
Oh, and please, please try to lose the race chip on your shoulder..it is rather boring.
You mess with the cat, you get the claws....
bubbly08 said
I started off reading the ...I started off reading the topic and feeling that t is wrong to impose your customs in a different country....but then i got wild when i saw some of the comments given-so said a lot more than initially intended :)
yes someonenew-I think I should back off-and let the " most sensible" people(according to themselves) in this forum take over
marhabtain said
Nasty little men ...Bubbly Jiggerboo clearly never got over the Brits leaving them when we gave them independence so that they could instill their own very vicious brand of racialism. Perhaps Bubbly should Bubbly off back to Bumbai. Yippee, Yippeee, its GORDONS gin for me!
WINNER Gordons Gin Personal Consumption Award 2008 Hic!
bubbly08 said
Thanks Alexa-if thats what ...Thanks Alexa-if thats what you feel about me-I couldnt care less-its not like i think the world of you or your opinions!
No intentions of wasting my race chip on somebody like lets see..Y-O-U!!!!
and yes-be careful when you get those claws out-others have bigger claws-you may get hurt for a change
Alexa said
Thanks bubbly...now finally ...Thanks bubbly...now finally you are seeing sense!
You mess with the cat, you get the claws....
Alexa said
Ohhhh....bubbly wants to ...Ohhhh....bubbly wants to hurt me.....now I'm shakin' in me boots...bring it on girly!
You mess with the cat, you get the claws....
bubbly08 said
na-i wont want to waste it ...na-i wont want to waste it on people like you-I dont wanna hurt you-but the way you are going-im sure youll get hurt on your own soon :)
bubbly08 said
and yes,your royal ...and yes,your royal highness,theres a difference between seeing sense and being diplomatic-so that others who have not been blessed with as much common sense will just shut up :)
marhabtain said
Hubbly Bubbly Jingly Troubly! ...OMG! I think I have found a new lyrics for a song! Back to the piano and the gin! Hic!Yippee, Yippeee, its GORDONS gin for me!
WINNER Gordons Gin Personal Consumption Award 2008 Hic!
Alexa said
Marhab..no, no ...Marhab..no, no trouble...light entertainment...that is all.csi
Oh, and bubbly...you might not know that yet, but on a site like QL you better grow a thicker skin.....;)
You mess with the cat, you get the claws....
someonenew said
bubbly one question why do ...bubbly one question why do you always end ur post with a :) are u joking by any chance?
I dream of a better tomorrow where Chickens can cross the Road without having their motives questioned - Unknown
bubbly08 said
im not joking-but i do find ...im not joking-but i do find some of Alexa's replies amusing-she seems desperate for a fight-frustrated ?!
bubbly08 said
my skin is thick enough ...my skin is thick enough alexa-you have to be thick skinned around thick headed people-I just believe in standing up for what i believe in-but itf futile to explain that to you as i can see-so im done with this topic
Alexa said
Naaa, no frustration ...Naaa, no frustration here...you ought to stop that reflecting thingy.....just posting...as everybody else on QL is. :)
You mess with the cat, you get the claws....
marhabtain said
Thick skinned Bubbly ...Does it apply to your head too? It would appear so yah! Back to the Piano - its a Bechstein yah! Yippee, Yippeee, its GORDONS gin for me!
WINNER Gordons Gin Personal Consumption Award 2008 Hic!
Arien said
Come on Alexa. it was not ...Come on Alexa. it was not that hard as you braught it to now. bubble ddnt tell to keep quite.. it was in a much sober way i guess. He put it like, when its gona hurt someone why dont you ''not say anything even if you feel so''
Read it again sweets..
quote
it would be great if you could just keep quiet and not say anything even if you feel so-where somebody else's religious beliefs are concerned
Unquote
Its two stones , if you want fire go aghead.. or you could keep them apart too.. lol
Now .. burning bodies ( not people as you mentioned) and floating in the river is not an Indian or Hindu custom for your kind info. Its been happening when guys who do it was throwing halfdone instead of the ashes. It will take you few years to learn whats that custom and practises which i sbeen in practice past 5000 years. so dont try, but more than a religion it was a culture lil older than you.
nigelreid said
let them do it ...i think Hindus should be given the right to do this. The British accommodate other religions so it seems unfair not to accommodate this one.
Arien said
I dont think so Nigelried.. ...I dont think so Nigelried.. its disgusting for others when its burnt in public dude. It happens in India wher there are hetcors of land for the family itself to do it.
In ma town in India , a crematorium closer to the town was moved by the court after compaints from public and later on all are converted to electric ones now.. then why does he went there and picked to live there and now creating all these fuss.??
britexpat said
Nigelreid. ...There is a community in India or Pakistan, UI forget which, who leave the corpses of their dead out in the open for birds to feed upon and pick clean..
Would we then have to accomodate them also ?
Harry99 said
The guy's living in a ...The guy's living in a council house, represents a minority of the Hindus and wants to change the laws of the country regarding buriel.. Send him packing is the answer..
Scarlett said
good grief... ...bubbly...someday perhaps you will grow up enough to know the difference between someone ridiculing your religion or part of it and someone making a comment on it. Or at least I certainly hope so...
Funny thing is that if you were on here long enough to know me, like other Indians have been, you'd find I am one of the biggest supporters of your nation. You really should learn to relax and take life a lot less serious and making more out of people's comments than was meant, otherwise you'll end up living a very worrisome life. Its too short to be that way and you are way too young to not be enjoying life and all its people.
Like someonenew said, we all do silly things (in others' eyes at least) like kissing under mistletoe. Its tradition. Or...say, (and I think this one is hilarious because its going no where anyway) taking a body to the morgue, filling it with formaldehyde to preserve it, getting it all dressed up, full makeup so it looks "alive"(???) andhaving an open casket...do what???? Ok WHY??? because its tradition. Personally speaking, when I am dead, I hope they just dig a hole and put me in there(to help fertilize the soil because I've had a LOT of people tell me I am full of, um, crap, lol)...and have one heck of a party to celebrate my life that was long and happy.
Learn to look at life and even religion with a smile and you'll live a much happier life.
I will continue to say what is crossing my mind because that's what I was raised to do by my parents. I will not intentionally say things that hurt others, but by the same token, i will not sit and weigh my every word because I MIGHT offend someone or their religion, by accident. That's what I took offense to in your original post.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
clearbluesky said
Brit, they are Zoroastrians. Ancient religion from Persia (Iran) ...They moved to India following the spread of Islam in Iran. If am not mistaken, they r ppl who worship fire.
Something is better than nothing but nothing is better than nonesense :p
someonenew said
Well said Scarlett I agree ...Well said Scarlett I agree with u completely.
I dream of a better tomorrow where Chickens can cross the Road without having their motives questioned - Unknown
Oryx said
ALLOW OPEN CREMATIONS! ...ALLOW OPEN CREMATIONS!
Great Idea... but only at certain times...like Friday and Saturday nights
Do it in the most public areas
I think the smell of putrid burning flesh would be a great crime deterrant.... superb idea....
And i dont care what anyone says..i aint putting on my bikini and jumping in the Ganges....
jauntie said
britexpat, The Independent article you posted makes it sound ...like this is news ... it's not.
The Times, in June 2007, published an article about Integration in UK. An extract from that article reads like there IS a suitable crematorium for Hindus who wish to follow their practice of open air funeral pyres.
"Another controversy that has occasionally hit the headlines is over open-air cremations. The council has tried to distance itself from a campaigner in Northumberland who unofficially – and illegally – conducted a cremation on an open funeral pyre. However, Mr Bhanot called for more crematoriums with facilities to accommodate worshippers, who are traditionally offered food and need to take a shower or wash. A large crematorium for Hindus, with a suitable hall, is being built in Leicester......"
http://www.timesonli...
Alexa said
Arien, bubbly came in here, ...Arien, bubbly came in here, berating people in a very condescending way. I for one, have NEVER seen her here before..so, not a good way to make a debut.
Sure, I came down on here hard, maybe a bit too hard, but, sometimes that kind of thing happens. Has happened to me, has happened to others.
Did I make fun of Indians? NO, I DID NOT.
Did I make fun of her, YES, I DID.
I have no problems with ANY religion,I have no problems with ANY nationality...as many of the people here on QL, who happen to know me personally, can tell you.
And quite frankly, I have no problem with people burning bodies in the open or let them decompose in rivers, or do what ever they wish with them...as long as they don't do it where I live.
You mess with the cat, you get the claws....
Winn said
ok...c'mon gals...u dont ...ok...c'mon gals...u dont need to start throwing darts at each other jus coz i got out to get some fresh air ;)...sheesh...i move out for a breather n y'all start fighting...
Talkin for myself i feel each nation has an identity, a unique culture n stick to that,or somewhere around that. Visitors/immigrants should cross in only after knowing the culture/practises and deciding whether they would be comfy with it. If not find another place...simple!
Agree with Harry on this one...this dude has the support of only very few ppl of the community.
Throwing bodies in any waterbody has never been condoned by any relegion...it is a decay of a system caused by lack of resources and exploitd by greedy middlemen.Yeah there's no way I'm gonna take a dip in Ganges near any town...though I would love to do it where it originates in the Himalayas...folks say its a beautiful place.
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What a caterpiller calls the end of the world, the MASTERS call it a Butterfly!!
Winn said
N what is this hoo-haa abt ...N what is this hoo-haa abt 'rotten flesh' being a religious insult? Deadbody in a waterbody (or any other place)will rot; its a natural process...religion doesnt hav anything to do with it!! but yeah there's no way I'm gonna give that water to a dying person... I would be sending him on his way prematurely.
The concept of purity of the water of Ganges originated at a time when the banks of ganges did not have 1/100th of its present population. The water used to come straight from the melting of the snow on those uninhabited himalayan slopes and yes it was pure and people worshipped the life-giving river! But in the present day environ...hell, NO!
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What a caterpiller calls the end of the world, the MASTERS call it a Butterfly!!
manishapant said
winn in himalaya,water is so ...winn in himalaya,water is so cold its freezing and also the current of river is very fast....r u sure u want to take a dip there..
Winn said
Dont remember the name of ...Dont remember the name of the spot, but i hav heard tell abt a place where its kinda like a small lake, right near its origin...thts wht i was talkin abt.yeah must b freezing for sure..
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What a caterpiller calls the end of the world, the MASTERS call it a Butterfly!!