Arabs silent on Iran election and unrest

what I noticed from people around me, all are arabs, they don't even care to see what's going on in Iran they don't even bother themselves to check the great activities the Persians around the world are doing online to help their brothers and sisters in Iran and to make their voices heard.

It's better to keep your mouth shut and give the impression that you're stupid than to open it and remove all doubt

What's new?

brit,
Sure, in a materialist world, who needs democracy when you don't even need to work or even get an education to produce wealth! And besides that, it’s too hot to think by ourselves, better to have a government to do that on our behalf!

If the Democarcey will send the country back to the old ages and centuries then we do not want it.
Take the example of Kwait every year there is 2 or 3 governments.
Last but not least the corruption which USA did in Iraq led to more death of people than at the time of Sadam Hussein.
Also because of USA more fight took place in Iraq between Shiaa and Sunnah.

"Arabs dominate only of the plains, because they are, by their savage nature, people of pillage and corruption. They pillage everything that they can take without fighting or taking risks, then flee to their refuge in the wilderness, and do not stand and do battle unless in self-defense. So when they encounter any difficulty or obstacle, they leave it alone and look for easier prey."
(Muqaddimah of Ibn Khaldoun)

"Arabs want somebody else to fight their battles on their behalf."

You mean they also hire 'slaves' to fight for their battles?

Oh, C'mon!!

"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach

I mean nothing! I quoted a reputed Arab scientist of the 14th century (long after Islam was introduced, Khalid). It is his opinion, being an Arab himself, and being honored with numerous schools, hotels, and universities named after him. So, please stop stirring [Mod Removed] by accusing me of having said what Ibn Khaldoun has said.

You are determined to make us look bad, aren't you? :-(

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Britexpat, you said "They are more worried that the people may suddenly wake up and demand more rights"

Spot on! I couldnt have said it better!

Khalid, what are you talking about when you said "If the Democarcey will send the country back to the old ages and centuries then we do not want it"

Speak for yourself if you don't want a democracy! We ARE living in the dark ages and in more ways than one heading back to aljaheleya (age of ignorance) at the speed of light!
In the Quran it says "wa shawerahum bil amr" = "ask (people's) opinions about matters', tell me who is hearing the Qatari people...and are they even capable of fertile expression?

Although I descend from the same leniage of those whom currently govern Qatar; I most certainly do not share their self serving internal policies that hurtle towards a beligerant lack of justice and no matter how the country tries to portray itself as civilised or how many international bodies mistakenly attest to Qatar having the least rates of corruption (transparency.org) this only goes to proove their lack of credibility!

But Khalid, I know that you know...and if these people reading QL could understand arabic they would be glued to Qatar's morning radio program "Watani alhabeeb saba7 ilkher" which incedentally is their only mode of expression...and when the people start getting too obvious they get cut off.

You also said "Take the example of Kwait every year there is 2 or 3 governments" Good example , wrong point! In kuwait they are undergoing a slow evolution towards a democratic system, It has its kinks! but still it shook the system to the core...recently when things became too heated with shk Nasser Al mohammed al sabah over the checks and he was about to be placed in the hot seat, he convieniently resigned and parliment was annulled, fine theyre starting again two, three or four times, but still theyve started, and im predicting it will evolve into a British type system, you have the decorative monarchy with set budgets (unlike here!!!) and the country is left to correct and shape its self according to peoples demands...A civilisation!

You know as well as I do that Qataris are afraid to talk, and when they do, they are either cut off and/or severely reprimanded...and the rest that dont talk are the ones that are lucratively sedate doing nothing as they travel along their routine migratory route within their chess like governmental posts! They sit there and wait untill the powers that be pick them as though they've won the lottery!

PM - Absolute power, corrupts absolutely...Various levels of transparency, you have your example of the Sadam and then you also have the monarch/dictators
tap water - evian same thing different packaging

I know of a family that recently 'broke the taboo' and took the powers to be to court. They were met with the expected Judges' response whom for the first time in his life was confused whom he should honour, his oath to God or to his employers...he chose the latter...the Qatari family said as they walked out of the court room "We need to bring the media into this courtroom" one week later a paper was put up outside the courtroom with a silly law saying the MEDIA IS NOT ALLOWED! oh yes, AND the courts police were doubled AND were given TAZERS

All I can say is wow! Thanks for the post/insight.

When I am abroad, I always make it a rule never to criticize or attack the government of my own country. I make up for lost time when I come home.

-Winston Churhill

ALL OF YOU LINE UP IN A SINGLE FILE, YOU ARE UNDER ARREST FOR DISTURBING THE WORD 'DEMOCRACY' ARAB STYLE!

It could be the self satisfaction at your own house and you country.
Ok lets start defining freedome. 1 2 3 go guys

the lack of desire for democracy on the part of the Qataris participating in the Doha Debate. I actually think they need democracy for that rainy day when you no longer have a good Emir and the money isn't flowing into pockets like it is now. I expressed these ideas to the participants, but don't know if it made an impact. I would say that most of them seem to have a much better education than for example, Khalid the tiger and they possess the ability to think critically -- something sadly lacking in many people.

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Democracy is not neccessarily the answer for all peoples. It all depends on the needs of the time and the development level of the society.

"the power to act or speak or think without externally imposed restraints"

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

I think FREEDOME has something to do with no charge for a head shave.

Freedom just another word, when you got nothing left to lose.

-Kris Kristofferson

with all that has been said enough. A really good debate.

I do not wish to be patronising here, the history of the Gulf States is not long. At tops 50 years, so why would the culture be the same as us?

We have peaked and now we are failing. The Western economy is [Mod Removed]ed as is our infra structure and culture.

I look at the Gulf, not Saudi, but to the Gulf and i see some laws they have and I applaud them! I think they are right.

Leave it alone. Yes they make mistakes, yes there is hypocrisy. They break the law....apart from the roads and the driving, are we not living a good safe life?

________________________________________________

Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)

""Khalid the tiger said What is freedome? ...
It could be the self satisfaction at your own house and you country.""

After all I said all you can do is cyber scurry 'to your house' for the satisfaction of some abstract form of freedom?

Did you read my post & do you realise that youre allowing yourself to be my QL case study which further prooves my point?

As I said when it comes to taboo subjects , half the locals are petrified they may be black listed...the others; die hard self serving fake sitting ducks that masqurade as loyalists...their motives? Waiting for a promotion or raise that will never come and when it does for those rare "experimentals" they get kicked out as quickly as they got dumped in.

Wake up Qatar, i've addressed the few complaining expatriates that hate it here yet stay....and I wont spare my fellow nationals either, you numb your humanity and free will to a yearly or bi-annual share buying 'opportunity' fix.
Then grumble about the misfortunes you have the choice to rebuke...If you want things to happen why are you afraid to talk or question or debate or demand your rights!
If 'self satisifaction in your home' is the freedom your coddle yourself with, I see it as a cattle minded psychophant mentality!

Qatar like Bahrain, Saudi and Oman are evolving. Europe went through the same phase. The last generation have lived with "benevelant' rulers with no questions asked. This generation is beginning to question and the ruling families are also beginning to listen - albeit slowly.

This process will continue and the countries and their systems will evolve.

Change does not take place overnight or over a decade. It takes much much longer..

As far as iran is concerned. Why should Arabs worry about it. they have their own issues and Iran is not really regarded as an "Arab" nation..

I truly appreciate & salute your Enthusiasm.
As you mention in your earlier post, those who govern Qatar are our fathers, uncles, relatives & head of our tribes. People who we share funerals & weddings with. We can't expect changes in a day. I'm sure with your degree of intellect, you'll be soon sucked-in the system you loath. and be part of the chess.I have finally came to terms with the fact that democracy should not be applied now in Qatar. i rather wait for the next generation. The ones studying now in EC, for instance. If election goes next year, as planned. It's a 100% win for the salafis. As they are the only organized hidden party now in Qatar. I think , they'll raise as soon as the election is announced. This is just one part of the ciaos. The worst, is the fact that qataris will vote based on the tribe(regardless of the background). So more or less, exactly like the members of the advisory council. The only difference that they are elected by the relatives instead of being chosen.
The bottom line, it's easier said than done

"signs of thirst for control and power – nuclear threat!"

I can name a lot of nations which can be labeled the same. look back at recent history and Iran is actually one of the few nations that has not had a conflict with others :)

brit,
Can you?
Do those nations also impose on its people an Islamic revolution life style?

It’s not an Islamic thing - you know that - it’s the removal of the freedom and rights, from an entire nation - the people of Iran.

I agree with you, it’s their own business (if they keep their extremism inside their country) but I do feel sorry for those who didn't choose to live the way they do and for those at risk from their eventual nuclear threat!

Hopefully they will end up recovering what they lost a few decades ago!

Genesis

I share far more than just weddings and funerals with those who govern Qatar and if anything for the very reasons you say will suck me into a system, a bizzare system that i wash my hands of, are in fact the same reasons that wearily keeps them at arms length.

Especially being a woman I currently bask in the fact that im socially not as easily harassed as the unfortunate men are,as is the custom in Qatar, and you know who they are.
You also know as well as I do that although the current regime wants atriculate recruits, these recruits must remain bot or slave like, stagnant, unquestioning and clap when prompted. Off course they are rewarded with very short but expensive leashes.

I don't idolize, can't be bought and fear only God...everything else goes against the grain.

You speak of a want for a future democracy in Qatar, does that mean a turnover of the current rule, or is that too taboo a subject?

I agree with your forcasting tribal elections and ill add will be driven by a lust for power rather than a desire towards constructive reform.

The majority of our co-nationals derrive their exposure from television , they hardly read, and the ones who appear capable i often find deal with independant thought and a healthly concious as difficult multi tasking. This almost always results with inferiority complexities that they mask with gross amounts of material wealth.

Not looking through Pink tinted glasses? ill believe it when i see it.

And if there is no bonified democracy right now?
The "fathers, uncles, relatives & head of our tribes " you mentioned that supposedly govern Qatar what have they done and what can they do, their very seats in cabinet are rooted in quick sand...in my opinion theyre meerly decorative bobble heads that nod when beckoned by the holy 3.
And what of the three, are they that unapproachable and can they ot be reprimanded or questioned?
One basic question that comes to mind is , all that unimagineable wealth, it wasnt inherited, do they have a right to it?
I want to know why do the Qatari people live in this exaggerated fear? or this unrealistic self salvery, with '4 sale' signs tatooed on their forheads.
Why is it taboo to debate or question in Qatar?
Why when the government looses its vison or commits a crime against one or many of its people why does eveyone get hush up and reminded to accept Gods will with utter resignation? I belive I have the right to remind them that this is our Qatar too and nationalsm or loyalty isnt instilled with fear or bought with money, its earned.

(sorry i have a splitting headache and couldnt really focus in this post)

Genesis Thank You for prooving my point :)

Night Owl, my opinion would be limited to characterizing the few Arabs I know personally. All of them are beautiful minds. Anything else would be speculative. I did not make a representative survey. I quoted someone who obviously did it in his time and spoke about his findings.

Thank you Lucitano, again you are too kind.
I only wish more Qataris spoke up about the gross injustices and double standard of our fake system, They are incapable of doing so, you have Genesis who of his own admission referrs to himself and I quote "Im a coward waiting to be picked up" its in the above post read for yourself...His condition more or less reflects the rest of Qatari society.
Unfortunately only TWO Qataris are speaking up, my Brother and myself..I guess it must be in the genes and the way our parents raised us.

PM the same for you dear, it is a pleasure to be here.

Alexa, Are you referring to this? :-
Alexa said Wow....very interesting!

I am sure there is so much more going on that we, the expatriates, have no idea about.....?

I can say unequivocally that it is the women of Iran that are the backbone of this movement. May Allah bless them in this lifetime for their courage and the men that stand at their side. This movement will embolden women throughout the Muslim world. May they receive their rightful place in today's society.

http://www.pbs.org/m...

Freedom just another word, when you got nothing left to lose.

-Kris Kristofferson

Wow! Lovin Qataria's opinions, though I do have to side more with Genesis. Qatar isn't in a position to have democracy yet, and for the time being, lucky for them, they see to have a benevolant monarch. However, as PM says, we'll see what happens when he dies....All Qatar needs is one (more) bad ruler and you'll see a major push toward democracy here I think. Same with every country in this region.

I have to disagree Brit. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Eventually there will be a ruler who takes a step too far, whether from greed or stupidity. It may not lead to rape camps and mass genocide like Saddam, but the loss of a couple million dollars might be enough to turn the tides.

"Absolute Power" is no longer the case. Most of the leaders in the region have to "accomodate" the various parties and usually in the background a committee is available for decisions by concensus.

I think that one big power should not be always the case, it is good to have to big powers or three.
Any comment?

I was talking about the Gulf.. In my opinion , there are systems (in the background) to keep the leaders "somewhat" in check :)

Now North Korea is a different matter..

When did I say anything about Islamic Democracy? I was saying you can't compare Kuwait Democracy to Democracy in Qatar Khalid.

Brit, I still think there not as strong as you'd like to think. There's still a fair bit of corruption in the Gulf States, and I think it's just a matter of time till one of the leaders gets "too Corrupt."

Forget the government, It’s the salafis who worries me most. They come with their own agenda, and distract the public in the name of religion. In a famous Qatari forum ,a huge debate is taking place over local couples holding hands at the malls(Offcourse it come with all the West influence accusations) !!!
I’m really outraged of what they are doing to this country, it’s like the 80’s/early 90’s all over again. All over the local media, All of a sudden dozen of educational summer camps are advertised( or as they claim). By local youth centers. The purpose of the summer camps as they calim is to teach the local youth the real Islamic values. The camps are in Egypt, Turkey or Syria (Terrorist training camps,anyone?!)

It finally appeared to me, how the upcoming constitutional election will run. Salafis are flooding the local media with minor issues like expatriates women dress, women in the workforce, PDA, etc. What’s better way to distract people of the real issues like abuse of power, Corruption,.. (Bring up religion or blame the west)

According to Some Saudi scholar (Mohammed Najeemi), Husband who holds his wife hand in public is pimping her!!!Don't ask me how & why did he came to that conclusion. As according to his explanation something to do with tempting the public instinct!
Off course when I tried debating that, my comments were deleted, not to mention I was called secular

That's ridiculous!! How can he be pimping her? Holding hands is a sign of affection. If anything it would strengthn the bonds of marriage here, which is something desperately needed given the divorce rate!

I find it interesting how holding hands is seen as a trivial matter. This is a huge matter because it is a freedom of expression that people are exercizing defying the religious power at be.

All of these "minor" issues can lead to blowing the top off what the scholars want to contain. So what do they do? They gave a little by opening their borders for their gain, but sacrificed the possibility that the Qataris would be exposed to what others have enjoyed--freedom to hold hands; freedom to wear what they want; freedom to express their views regardless if they are in contrast to the government.

The lid has blown off in Iran and people have gained momentum because two thirds of the population is under 35 yrs of age. There is power in numbers.

People here are no longer hidden away from the rest of the world because of technology and the desire to compete with the rest of world.

The free thinkers need to grow in numbers here in order for further change to occur. I will be long gone before that happens here.

The problem is that these clerics are afraid of change, because that could lead to them losing power over the people.

So, these things will always happen, but society will continue to evolve. Look at Saudi Arabia now and five years ago. Look at Qatar now and five years ago..:)

I think the Salafis and their accommodation up to this point is something that could come back and really bite the progressive elements in Qatar. They could drastically change everybody's way of life; in the same manner that a spreading Iranian Shi'a revolution could (although latest events make me think that is less of a threat) . For ex-pats we can leave, but would Qataris be happy with that after the last 10 years of development, prosperity and reform?

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

1. a very corrupt royal family who has not reinvested profits into infrastructure, education and industry.

2. A significant Salafi block in the Parliament who want to crack down on personal freedoms

3. A strong Shi'a black in the Parliament who are more concerned with serving iran than Kuwait.

It is not democracy per se; and in fact with the power of the monarchy there you cannot even blame it on democracy.

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Thanks Abdulaziz!
My former posts were written to highlight that there is a huge problem here.
I agree with where your coming from , I know there is a serious problem in Qatar but i cant go as far at this stage in time to support your conclusions. Its definetly food for thought & worth exploring.

the Qatari power brokers that are less than pleasant but I personally wouldn't want to see Qatar spiral into a Zionist witch hunt, rooting out imaginary freemasons.

Sorry abdalaziz, but your post just sounds like more of the pent-up frustration of the armchair mujahideen. It's hard to take you seriously as having any real proposal for how to improve on the political situation.

And frankly, I find your sudden appearance on the forum as a supposedly disgruntled cousin to the Emir, more than a little suspect.

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

It is about coexistence between Muslims, Christians and Jews -- not Zionism. The fact that you latch onto some suspicious post from someone who is brand new to the site and declares himself a cousin to the Emir (presumably posting under his real name) and launch an attack against Genesis is disappointing. I expected much more educated and reasonable views from you based upon your previous posts. Now you and the "Sheikh" seem to be on a conspiracy theory roll -- him with his freemason imagination and you thinking Genesis is a Zionist front. That dances very near to some of the wackos on here who accuse me of not being a Muslim and working for the CIA.

I think you are better than this.

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

PM I myself was brand new only a few weeks ago, and you too at some point were brand spaniking new yourself, being new or old is relative in light of voicing ones opinion for an open debate is it not?

As for Genesis being a free mason well it seems to echo his rhetoric, although in slight agreement with you, he may not be fully awear that he is , as he seems to just go with the flow unquestioning and as in his own words reffered to himself and I am quoting his above post when he explaimed " I'm sorry madam for being a coward, I wish i can elaborate more. Some time certain things, are better left unspoken.I'm one of those waiting to be "picked up" ;)"

And when being asked if he was Zionist by Abdulaziz he quipped "Well, if that’s what you’re aiming at.
I’m glad to be called a coward & a hypocrite Than sucked-in back to the "true" dark ages.
GOD BLISS THE HOLY 3, at least they have a progressive Vision for this country"

That doesnt sound like disagreement to me.
Besides let him defend or explain himself and his declarations.