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Latest news from Qatar
KILL THEM
From yesterdays GDN paper...
" TEHRAN:
A hardline Iranian cleric called yesterday for the execution of leading "rioters" to teach a lesson to the tens of thousands who have protested against the result of the presidential election two weeks ago.
"I want the judiciary to ... punish leading rioters firmly and without showing any mercy to teach everyone a lesson," Ayatollah Ahmad Khatami, a member of the Assembly of Experts, told worshippers at Tehran University.
Iran's top legislative body, the Guardian Council, said it had found no major violations in the election, which it described as the "healthiest" since the 1979 Islamic Revolution, but said 10 per cent of ballot boxes would be recounted.
It has rejected a call for the election to be annulled by moderate former prime minister Mirhossein Mousavi, who has led mass protests since he was declared a distant second in the election behind incumbent President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
Iranian authorities have accused Mousavi of responsibility for the bloodshed, while he says the government is to blame.
Khatami alleged that the icon of the opposition, slain protester Neda Agha Soltan, was killed by demonstrators, not the Iranian security forces. Soltan, 27, was killed by a shot to the chest last week, on the sidelines of a protest.
Britain's Times newspaper quoted Dr Arash Hejazi, an Iranian who appeared on Internet videos helping Neda, as echoing opposition charges the 26-year-old was killed by a government militiaman.
The official website of Mousavi was hacked yesterday, leaving it blank, an aide said."
.........................I read in another paper, that the ayotolla used a phrase 'mohareb' or one who wages war against God.
Under Iran's Islamic law, punishment for people convicted as mohareb is execution.
Surely they would'nt kill people just for protesting at what they think is wrong doing ?
Thats a bit steep isnt it ?
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MagicDragon said
Steep, only for you ...Steep, only for you (un-Islamic) Mr. Paul.
Khalid the tiger said
There is no Democracy in Iran, why? ...Because Ali Khminai decides every thing for them, Ali Khamina thinks he is selected by God and repersents God existance on earth.
AbuAmerican said
Who cares... let them kill ...Who cares... let them kill each other all day. How has this crazy dudes statement changed anything in life for you?
I'm starting to think peoples claims about your personal jihad against Muslims is true Mr.p.
______________________________________________
Brazilian Jujitsu in Qatar
http://iloveqatar.ne...
MR PAUL said
Khalid, so this Ali guy just decided he is selected to be leader ...?
How can that be ?
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a [Let's not get blocked by the Telco].
MR PAUL said
Oh here we go again ABu. ...Where in this topic have I said anything about Islam ?
I asked a couple of serious questions and you jump down my throat straight away.
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a [Let's not get blocked by the Telco].
lusitano said
The Iranians submission to ...The Iranians submission to an authoritarian regime, has only been possible, because religion's submission!
MagicDragon said
"Iranian cleric", "Islamic ..."Iranian cleric", "Islamic Revolution", "Iran's Islamic law".
Just a few "Islam references"in your post, Mr. Paul.
AbuAmerican said
I read in another paper, ...I read in another paper, that the ayotolla used a phrase 'mohareb' or one who wages war against God.
Under Iran's Islamic law, punishment for people convicted as mohareb is execution.
???
______________________________________________
Brazilian Jujitsu in Qatar
http://iloveqatar.ne...
MR PAUL said
Then I asked the question.... ...'Thats a bit steep isnt it ?'
meaning, they wont kill people who think the voting system has been rigged .....
Khalid has explained that the ayatolla believes he has been selected by god to represent him.Then I asked another question, to which I hope he will reply.
We are having a discussion, in which I hope Khalid will clear up some points, so I will have a better idea of what is going on in Iran.
MD, thats how it is written in the GDN paper.Not my words.
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a [Let's not get blocked by the Telco].
MagicDragon said
Mr. Paul. Sarcasm? Read ...Mr. Paul. Sarcasm? Read between my lines, please. Be intelligent.
UkEngQatar said
Kill Them!! are there any ...Kill Them!! are there any left?
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HE WHO DARES WINS
lusitano said
Mr. Paul, What's going on in ...Mr. Paul,
What's going on in Iran is an example of how mankind can (ab)use religion to gain power and control an entire country!
I would say, similar to what the Church achieved in the Medieval Age... but then again at that time it was much easier, because people were generally more ignorant... or were they really?!
Khalid the tiger said
When it will become uncontrolled they will kill them all ...Iranian Gouvernment may kill them all when it is uncontrolled.
MR PAUL said
Khalid, they will just kill ALL the rioters ?? ...Every single one ??
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a [Let's not get blocked by the Telco].
Khalid the tiger said
they will kill enough number ...If they do not then the current gouvernment will colapse (fall down)
In my opinion, if the elections were fair then why so much chaos?
I think it was not fair elections.
PM said
So I guess now no one can post anything that touches on Muslims ...unless it makes us look good. Too bad you stepped over the line Mr. P and reported on current events in an unflattering manner.
To the subject at hand: Nothing would surprise me when it comes down to maintaining control over the Iranian people in the service of the Islamic Revolution. It's pretty clear that since 1979 the concept of the Revolution takes precedence over human rights.
I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Khalid the tiger said
In my opinion ...The Islamic Revoloution in Iran kills human rights and thats explain why Sunnah has the worest jobs and lowest life status.
Which revoloution is this.
When western people see Shiah hitting them selves with kives they will say this is Islam.
MR PAUL said
Sorry PM. I will never post anything again on QL :( ...---------------------------------------------------------
I think you have me confused with someone who gives a [Let's not get blocked by the Telco].
PM said
Mr. P, I was being sarcastic ...about the responses you were getting.
I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM
UkEngQatar said
Mr Paul.. See what happens ...Mr Paul.. See what happens when you try to post anything that is not from the daily mail.:)
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HE WHO DARES WINS
habib_nuh said
"Whoever disagrees with us... ...disagrees with God."
This is the essence of what the "ayatollah" said, and most of what the wahhabis say too.
That being said, I think the elections probably were fair. There is a power struggle over who will control Iran.
If the government can indeed be provoked into more violent responses, then they will certainly lose the game.
They should do like the U.S. does. Let the demonstrators protest all they want, and just ignore them and continue the same policy. Then, when they get worn out, say, "this just shows how great our system is, that people can speak their minds if they disagree."
But, I think they made big mistake sending out the cops.
britexpat said
PM.. ...Theoretically, if the Guardian Council found no irregularities, then the protests must cease. If they continue, then the protesters could be seen as anarchists and be dealt with accordingly..
Alexa said
I've said it before...the ...I've said it before...the Iranian people have done it once...and they will do it again...no matter what those "Elected" ones,or their puppeteers say or do!
Good luck!!!!
It will be, as it usually is, bloody and brutal, but it will happen,IMHO.
Let mad dogs bark at the moon...in solitude.
mmyke said
Mr. Khalid.. ...I would be the first one to think that you would be supporting those clergy suppressing civil and personal rights in Iran,,,,you have been a supporter of this sort of thing throughout your comments here on QL,,,have you not??
Stone Cold said
Prosecute, condemn, ...Prosecute, condemn, torture,and kill the protesters. Thats an abnormal stance a cleric would be taking. I am sure this is not permitted in the Ayatollah Islamic law.
PM said
Brit, I hope you realize that killing protestors is extreme ...regardless of whether they are right in protesting. Killing anarchists is EXTREME.
You never cease to amaze me regarding what you will defend for the sake of being PC.
I agree with Habib. The Iranian government has lost a valuable opportunity.
I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM
mmyke said
do you not think.. ...that when Joe Biden stated that after 6 months of Obama in office he would be "seriously tested"....anyone think that what North Korea is engaged in has any co-ordination with what is happened in Iran where they wanted a very speedy resolution to the election?? just maybe perhaps?? ...
cynbob said
CNN ...CNN reported earlier today that 9 Brits were arrested from the embassy because of their participation in the protests....
I also read that 4 were released but the others are still being held.
What's going to happen to the Brits?
habib_nuh said
alexa, what have the iranian done before? ...If the Islamic Republic is irredeemably bad, then it looks like the Iranian people in 1979 had a bloody revolt against an oppressive government just to install another oppressive government.
So what are they going to do again - have another bloody revolt to install another oppressive government? Then for what are all the lost lives and blood?
Overthrowing governments in the M.E. never brought a single improvement in human rights, and has only ever made things worse, setting the region back again and again; each new government getting more fearful and oppressive than the next, with outside powers pushing more and more on the people for their interests.
Just take a look at Egypt, where "questions" about the legitimacy of elections are a laugh. Or Saudi Arabia, where the very concept of elections is a laugh. How does Iran compare to these two U.S. allies? If people in Saudi Arabia were doing what the people in Iran are doing, they would all be in Guantanamo by now. So there is some hypocrisy in all this, no?
My advice for people in this region about politics is: just leave it to the politicians.
habib_nuh said
Just to repeat one question: ...What would be happening in Saudi Arabia or Egypt if the people there were doing what the people in Iran are doing?
lusitano said
habib, Nobody is interfering ...habib,
Nobody is interfering with what is going on in Iran (no matter how nasty it looks) the same as nobody would interfere with the actual nasty situation of Egypt, Saudi and all the other Middle East authoritarian regimes!
People - citizens of the world - are just talking about the hypocrisy and brutality of the Iranian Religious regime!
habib_nuh said
Nobody is interfering with what is going on in Iran? ...I don't think you or I have real basis for knowing whether this is true or not.
Recent history suggests that the British and Americans are deeply interested and capable of interfering in Iran.
They did engineer the overthrow of Iran's democracy before, and install the Shah.
Why should I believe they are not willing and able to do it again?
There are certainly foreign policy objectives that would be met by such means.
britexpat said
lusitano .. ...It is not so black and white. Our governments, i am sure are supporting the "dissention" covertly using different means. But Iran does the same in other countries.
Britain and America are being mentioned to divert attention from the real issues and galvanize the people against the protesters.
popcorngirl said
Mr P. ...It says it all in your last sentence! Yes they have/do kill people for protesting.
_________________________________________________
Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)
habib_nuh said
I am still a bit blurry on the facts about the election ...I have only heard assertions that the election was rigged and counter assertions that it was not. Therefore, I am not in a position to have an informed opinion on that, and I do not form my opinions about factual questions on the basis of my political feelings.
Either way, this seems a plausible enough plan to create instability in Iran.
1) Notice that there is a lively turnout for the elections, and a high level of polarization among the public between the political forces.
2) Wait until the votes are being counted, and when it appears that the incumbent won, use already established organs of information warfare (via the internet, radio, and on the ground, etc.) to broadcast rumors and misinformation making it appear that the vote was rigged.
3) Allow the effect of this information assault to snowball among the public. If it does, well, there is a textbook somewhere in London or Washington which explain the next steps in great detail, I assume.
But as always, the textbook does not say what to do if "successful."
habib_nuh said
Iran's best hope? (from Wash Post) ..."The one possible wild card in Mousavi's favor seems to be coming from the holy city of Qom, one of the most influential centers of Shiite learning. There, several powerful grand ayatollahs have issued statements calling for a compromise and, most tellingly, have not joined Khamenei in his unequivocal support of Ahmadinejad.
"Events that happened have weakened the system," Grand Ayatollah Abdolkarim Mousavi Ardabili said during a meeting with members of the Guardian Council, the semiofficial Iranian Labor News Agency reported Saturday. "You must hear the objections that the protesters have to the elections. We must let the people speak."
Another grand ayatollah issued two fatwas, or religious edicts, on Saturday, saying Islam forbids security forces from hitting unarmed people. Grand Ayatollah Asadollah Bayat Zanjani said the protests were Islamic. "These gatherings are the lawful right of the people and their only method for informing the rulers of their requests," he said."
PM said
It is said people get the government they deserve. ...I prefer a world where we outsiders stay out of each others' business because it only turns around to bite us in the butt.
I do think the Islamic Revolution in 1979 has been just as bad as the Shah's government and do not see it as an improvement. But I am not Iranian so my opinion matters little. The Iranians have the government they wanted (it seems) and deserve, in my opinion.
I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM
britexpat said
PM.. ...You're right. We tend to forget history all too readily.. I would agree with you. The people have the power. If they ar unwilling to use it, then the majority must be happy with their lot !
shabla said
no more killings ...peace dude. no more killings please. god is watching.
popcorngirl said
How many of us ...really know the people we vote in though?
I agree with Pm and Brit up to a point but all Politicians lie and then there is corruption.
Lets look at Mugabe, do the people REALLY deserve that government?
No, but he was 'voted' in.
_________________________________________________
Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)
britexpat said
popcorngirl.. ...The problem is that after long periods of abuse by successive governments, the people either give up hope - as in Zimbabwe or stand up and say enough - As in Iran under the shah and ukraine recently.
MagicDragon said
How long will it take before ...How long will it take before the Brits stand up against their useless royals, brit?
britexpat said
MD.. ...Sadly, I am one of those who supports the Queen.. I think she's a great monarch and advertisement for the country. Her offspring, apart from Prince Charles have a lot to answer for ..
MagicDragon said
OK, accepted. ...OK, accepted.
habib_nuh said
PM, I agree that generally, people get the government they ...OUCH! Something just bit me in the butt!...Ouch! Again! Gotta go now. My ass hurts.
PM said
You forgot to CYA, habib! ...;-)
I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM