Fatwa against National song of india

They issue fatwa and I abide by it..... what crap...

These are jobless people who make living life hell on earth.Religious hatred are the cheapest and the dirtiest form of seeking fame and name.

Who cares!!! India is a democracy, and that answers.
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- Listen to Many...Speak to a Few -

We love our "MOTHERLAND" always

Jana Gana Mana is National anthem and Vande mataram is the national song of India

Had this been in china , he would be behind the bars by now. Its the freedom to question anything and everything which creates these kind of issues.

There is court and judiciary , let them file a case against it there.

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- Listen to Many...Speak to a Few -

Veri: LOL...wiki again! Never heard abt any of those groups raising an objection against the national song. mind giving some references ?(other than a sweeping statement ). Again, I have not heard them declaring bans on the national song. Have you? and millions from the very same groups marched as one, unarmed against armed battalions,to the same slogan before 1947.

About the Durga reference. Look up 'metaphor'.

Your belief has a problem with the country's culture? Fine. I am all for having something very clinical, impersonal and antiseptic, for a national song ,if thats the price for keeping peace. Lets have A.R Rahman compose music for a non-offending passage from our constituition or even penal code. Forget all that freedom era literature. and,Yeah we will have a referendum on which section and article to choose for the purpose.

Lets start with the national anthem too and add all the other states instead of just saying "Punjab, Sind, Gujurat and Maratha Dravid and Orissa and Bengal".and then why is the anthem in just one language. lets have one for every language group. and whats this whole 'bhagya vidhaata' thing about? Wont it offend atheists? lets change that too, right?

On a positive note, I take it as the proof that india can confirm its position in the elite band of 'modern' nations where being a minority means you can question/discard any national symbol with impunity without being questioned for disrespect towards national symbols that have been adopted by its constituition.

salman unfortunately truth is not defined as per your knowledge. Vande Mataram is the National Song and Jana Gana Mana is the National Anthem.

Salman - Are you ok? :D
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- Listen to Many...Speak to a Few -

salman: Your knowledge is wrong.Jana Gana Mana is the national anthem. Vande Mataram is national song. The national anthem was penned in bengali but the version being used presently is the (sanskriticed) hindi version. Did it sound like Bengali to you? Sad you missed the ubiquitous bengali 'o'. ;)

Btw, do give a search on who had the audacity to go to erstwhile east bengal and announce that "Urdu and only Urdu' can become their national language. The whole episode ended up in the fiasco of 16th Dec 1971. Chk it out.

Veri: well, I jus wanted to see whether you could back up that sweeping statement you made. You couldnt but thats just fine.

Btw, what made Jana Gana Mana , the national anthem, funnily, was its musical score on that particular day. Strange but true. Will make your homework easy. Check out 'Freedom at Midnight'.

Imposing a song? Where did I say anything about making them sing that song? Did I say they had to? My point is this. Since it has come to this, lets think about every single group in India and see whether you can make a song pleasing every single one of them. If we can, I am all for having that. Its a democracy, right?

Tagore's stance against it is also news to me. Lemme do some of that 'my own homework'.

Bottom line, its not about Hindu Goddess. Its a song praising 'Mother India' comparing the country's might to that of a mythical goddess. Metaphor again.

Catch ya tomoro.

if there is a fatwa against a national song or anything whats ur problem Winn...
are they forcing you to follow the fatwa
will fowlowing the fatwa make muslims less patrotic

.are you trying to provoke RB?
.are you trying to spread hatread amongst the qlers by posting such an intentional thread?
. are you following the usual trend of qliving by posting such sensitive thread so that you can have more points

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There are good people in this world, and they are not ONLY Muslims, you know. Geez.(last comments by alexa when she left Qiving)

all of us indian hindus on ql should make a pledge that we will not participate in any islam bashing thread again.. yalla yalla join me because u all know u cant beat me :>

It is not a prayer song for any religion metrocity. It is just a patriotic song, when we used to sing it in the morning assembly in school, we were doing it for our motherland. I do agree though that we can do without such threads here.

You are wrong in saying - What is your problem? If a group or a nation raises a question about my country,it is definately my problem. And it should be your problem too. Don't forget that we are Indians before Hindus,Muslims or any other religious group. Fatwa is not the way to go about expressing your opinion in a democracy.

Source:
- A study Conducted by FriedUnicorn - Vol I (September,1999)

nop......patriotism is a part of iman but if this song goes against religion, .....
i don't understand what will happen if they stopped singing the song because no matter what song you sing, your patriotism is proven with one's deeds & not with what one sings!!

Pay peanuts & you get Monkeys

Source:
- A study Conducted by FriedUnicorn - Vol I (September,1999)

this is a poor topic...

That is more than enough actually immi. I was just explaining why we sing that song. If its against anyone's beliefs they shouldn't.

Eco-savvy if that's the case why do I see so many threads here bashing people on the basis of nationality, some of them written by Muslims? Double-standards do prevail everywhere it seems.

Well I will believe they are part time believers because you said so. After all you are the ultimate authority to decide who is and who isn't a believer or are you?

these types of objections are very common in india... it'l come & go..!

~noms~
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"Before God we are all equally wise ' and equally foolish" - Albert Einstein

/-a-t-/casanova.. i studied in a brit school. they teach us songs they sing to jesus. they teach us songs praising ALL GODS.they mainly teach us to RESPECT ALL RELIGIONS N EVERYONE'S BELIEFS!!! they teach the national anthem in school as later u cant blame the teacher for not knowing the national anthem.. its the song tat unites us as a nation.. fighting against it or about it just shows how poor our thoughts are..we are indians first and then comes caste n creed.. lets remember tat our forefathers fought this war togther to bring peace.. its a shame we have to fight among ourselfs for something tat united them!!!!!

First of all, the issue is about how you deal with it. Its a democracy and if you cant ACCEPT what is, then you CHANGE it. If it offends someone they should proceed though the right channels and get the constituition amended. What you dont do is REJECT outright a national symbol endorsed by the constituition and provoke others to reject it. It is tantamount to saying that you and your organisation is above the country's system and constituition, not to mention heritage and culture.

Secondly, in my personal view, I dont care a hoot about the gods/godesses mentioned in it coz I dont believe in them. (Also, if any of you have actually listened to the national song, you should know that the goddess mention which is in the original literary work is not there in the version that is sung as the national song). I cannot think of any places of worship(temples) where the song is sung either.

What I care about is the thousands of brave men and women (of all faiths) who chose 'Vande Mataram' as their final words before they walked into lathis,bayonets, bullets or gallows with their heads held high. People who gave up everything including their jobs, their houses, families and ultimately their lives.'Vande Mataram' to me embodies their sacrifices, to a magnitude that I cannot even begin to fathom. and if someone says that it offends them, it means they are offended by the very conviction,the essence, the spirit that motivated those brave souls to fight for their freedom. The very freedom that is used today to REJECT national symbols outright.

Third, pardon my ignorance, but is it a pre-requisite to reject anything outside Islam to become a good Muslim? Then do remember that the Indian flag that has Asoka Chakra, the wheel of dharma, which symbolizes the teachings of Buddha. Does that offend you? Have problems respecting it?

When you are at it, you might as well declare a fatwa against Indian currency and coins. How can you use them on a daily basis coz it has the national emblem which happens to be the adaptation of a Buddhist stupa at Sanchi and has the words from a Hindu Upanishad. (Satyameva Jayate). Funny thing, no one ever got offended by currency notes/coins, that you encounter much more frequently than the national song. Money speaks a different language, I suppose.

The post did not say anything about patriotism. I dont understand why people started on it.

Like I said, its a democracy, which means you have the freedom to express dissent and change what you dont like. When you are at it, do think how many countries are there in the world where you can REJECT a national symbol and the majority's beliefs and be immune to prosecution.

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"I associated the purest national spirit with it(vande Mataram). It never occurred to me that it was a Hindu song or meant only for Hindus. Unfortunately now we have fallen on evil days. All that was pure gold before has become base metal today. In such times it is wisdom not to market pure gold and let it be sold as base metal. I would not risk a single quarrel over singing Vande Mataram at a mixed gathering. It will never suffer from disuse. It is enthroned in the hearts of millions. It stirs to its depth the patriotism of millions in and outside Bengal. Its chosen stanzas are Bengal’s gift among many others to the whole nation.”- Mahatma Gandhi.

"India is a democracy , majority decides and the whole lot follows."

Say something acceptable.

and Google ur interior minister statement for this song or anthem, wat ever u call it.

I’m not offended with your lack of knowledge and understanding.

Here goes your answer:

First of all, the issue is about how you deal with it. Its a democracy and if you cant ACCEPT what is, then you CHANGE it. If it offends someone they should proceed though the right channels and get the constituition amended. What you dont do is REJECT outright a national symbol endorsed by the constituition and provoke others to reject it. It is tantamount to saying that you and your organisation is above the country's system and constituition, not to mention heritage and culture.

If you go through the history of the case you will find number of petitions filed against this, but it has always been turned towards a communal issue.
In a country where you can sue a company for not getting a girlfriend after using a deodorant, you are not heard for an issue which is harmful for the society… ridiculous Democracy….

As per the rights of democracy, one is allowed to protest if not being heard (and that’s what exactly being done) and YES… Islam is above everything to us, because we believe that Quran (Allah’s Words) is our constitution, which is same for every Muslim around the world, and its clearly mentioned in Quran to respect your nation, but worship only one God, we do not believe in thousands of Gods / Goddesses, so we can add one more to it.

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Secondly, in my personal view, I dont care a hoot about the gods/godesses mentioned in it coz I dont believe in them. (Also, if any of you have actually listened to the national song, you should know that the goddess mention which is in the original literary work is not there in the version that is sung as the national song). I cannot think of any places of worship(temples) where the song is sung either.
What I care about is the thousands of brave men and women (of all faiths) who chose 'Vande Mataram' as their final words before they walked into lathis,bayonets, bullets or gallows with their heads held high. People who gave up everything including their jobs, their houses, families and ultimately their lives.'Vande Mataram' to me embodies their sacrifices, to a magnitude that I cannot even begin to fathom. and if someone says that it offends them, it means they are offended by the very conviction,the essence, the spirit that motivated those brave souls to fight for their freedom. The very freedom that is used today to REJECT national symbols outright.

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I respect Mahatma Gandhi, but tell me what about those who fought for our country before Gandhi, from Tipu Sultan to Mughals from Mangal panday to Magadhs they used different verses to motivate their armies…. Why don’t we use “Inqilaab Zindabad”, “Nara-e-Takbeer Allah-o-Akbar”, “Tum hume khoon do hum tumhe Azadi deN ge”, “Jai Javan Jai Kissan”, “Bharat Mata ki Jai” etc etc….

These phrases made the convictions strong, and has nothing offensive for any religion, why don’t we use these phrases, just to add one more thing to it, “Saare jahaN se achha, hindustaN Hamaara”, have you ever seen a Muslim who condemned this song.

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Third, pardon my ignorance, but is it a pre-requisite to reject anything outside Islam to become a good Muslim? Then do remember that the Indian flag that has Asoka Chakra, the wheel of dharma, which symbolizes the teachings of Buddha. Does that offend you? Have problems respecting it?

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No! we don’t have any problem in accepting it as far as it does not offend our religion, your ignorance is excused, but the orange colour in Indian Flag symbolize Hinduism and Buddhism and Green Symbolize Muslims, that’s what we call unity in diversity.

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When you are at it, you might as well declare a fatwa against Indian currency and coins. How can you use them on a daily basis coz it has the national emblem which happens to be the adaptation of a Buddhist stupa at Sanchi and has the words from a Hindu Upanishad. (Satyameva Jayate). Funny thing, no one ever got offended by currency notes/coins, that you encounter much more frequently than the national song. Money speaks a different language, I suppose.
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We don’t have any problem with any particular language, “Satyameva Jayate” means “hail the truth” there is nothing against Islam, no matter where it comes from what it says does matter to us.

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The post did not say anything about patriotism. I dont understand why people started on it.
Like I said, its a democracy, which means you have the freedom to express dissent and change what you dont like. When you are at it, do think how many countries are there in the world where you can REJECT a national symbol and the majority's beliefs and be immune to prosecution.

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Just for your Information, no country in the world has as many Gods as India, I don’t mind what they worship, whether its pee of a Cow or dunk, as far as its not harming Islam.

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

u can't say 200 millions are minority, and plz be upto date, and see the statement of Chadam baram On a day that he was attending, the 30th general session of the Jamiat Ulama-e-Hind.
"The Jamiat resolution refers to a judgment of the Supreme Court “clearly stating that nobody can be compelled to sing the Vande Mataram”. said Chadam baram.

And common Hindus not compell to sing Vande........only terror group like RSS, Shiv Sena is demanding this .
Winn are you one of the member to this terror group or what.

There is nothing against Vande........ but being a Muslim cant' sing, and you will not understand , simple answer you are not a Muslim.

Yawn

dotcom you are boring !!!
arien come on man, dont waste your efforts here

ajooba no man , dot.com is a buddy, from across the border, and its true that both sides have many misunderstanding and misconcepts about the other. Its good to discuss and clarify :)
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- Listen to Many...Speak to a Few -

Do you wanna sing the song? then SING it! If not,then, DON'T SING IT! But Respect it, as it's a National Song and it has got lotsa stories to tell about the history!
I still believe in the freedom of speech and expression. By the way I'm an Indian and I don't have any problem with what you do or think about it; just my opinion..

---If you can't CONVINCE 'em, CONFUSE 'em!!!

I really feel Indians here need to stop feeding the trolls on every topic about India, they dont deserve to reminded again and again that all Indians are one.....

thalib
WTF wrong with you???
wats wrong information i feeded here on this thread???
and wats wrong if i remember the golden period of our forefathers?

made for each other

Yaa Talib, that was a mistake and hope its not gona be repeated anymore...

"Khoon aankhoN ke charaghoN me saja lo warna.
Teergi shaher se rukhsat nahi hone waali"

"Saath chalna hai to Talwaar utha meri tarhaN.
Mujhse Buzdil ki himayat nahi hone waali"

"Abke jo faisla hoga wo yahiN par hoga.
HUMSE AB DOOSRI HIJRAT NAHI HONE WAALI"

hope you understand that...

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

whats up.....? the cooler boy... ;-)

Casanova: First of all do let me thank you for your magnanimity in pardoning my ignorance. Don’t know what I would have done without it. Now coming to your post.

“In a country where you can sue a company for not getting a girlfriend after using a deodorant”-
I guess you are referring to a satire posted in a site called ‘fakingnews’ . It wasn’t a real incident.
Just coz I think that I don’t get justice in court doesn’t mean I can go on the street and do what I feel I want.

“As per the rights of democracy, one is allowed to protest if not being heard (and that’s what exactly being done)”:
you have a right to protest, I agree. But protest is one thing, boycotting and encouraging to boycott national symbols endorsed by the constitution is another thing. That’s exactly what is being done here. What you should do is impress on your elected representatives to raise the issue on the floor of parliament and then reach an amendment. You are a pretty decent size vote bank, so get it done. Courts cant do that for you. Of course, it takes effort.

“YES… Islam is above everything to us”- That’s quite evident. Thank you. You have as much freedom to believe in that as has someone else to believe that the nation is above everything, including religion.

“Why don’t we use “Inqilaab Zindabad”, “Nara-e-Takbeer Allah-o-Akbar”, “Tum hume khoon do hum tumhe Azadi deN ge”, “Jai Javan Jai Kissan”, “Bharat Mata ki Jai” etc etc…”

Tipu and the Mughals were fighting for their own territories, not for the whole nation. And they were as much of tyrants as the colonial powers. It cannot in any way be compared to a mass movement of common people who came together in their own volition without being commanded by a king/an autocrat. And none of those slogans were ever as popular, as widespread from kashmir to kanyakumari, arunachal to ahmedabad, as this one. The ones you said happened in isolated pockets. (Jai Javan Jai Kisan is post independence, not that it matters, but just clarifying). By the way, if you are ok with ‘Bharat Mata ki Jai’ then what is the problem with Vande Mataram? by the Takbeer was heard more during the post independence riots. Chk out those old archives/videos

‘Inqilab Zindabad’ means ‘long live revolution’. ‘Gimme blood, I’ll give you freedom” is again not a song and What is its connection with a motto, the national song of a ‘sovereign’ republic? That said, I do appreciate your search for alternatives. Good luck on that.

Indian Flag and the religious symbol- You spoke about the colors , but you did not touch the thing about the religious symbol, the Buddhist wheel of dharma which was exactly my point. As for currency you again missed the symbol from the Buddhist stupa.

“I don’t mind what they worship, whether its pee of a Cow or dunk”- You seem to be at your magnanimous best today, my friend. But sorry to say, its quite misplaced and your statement is judgmental. Nobody worships pee of cow or dung. But you are quite free to say that and look down upon a group of people coz you believe that they do. You have that freedom in India. You have the freedom to say Islam is above everything else for you. You have the freedom not to sing the national song. (but saying that its 'offensive?) do remember that democracy is as much about majority as it is about minority rights.

What would you say, tomorrow, if an atheist group wants to remove the ‘Mana adhi nayaka’ and ‘Bhagya Vidhata’ mention in the National anthem? Would you support them saying it offends them and they are Indians too? Or is your cause only for what offends muslims?

Pajjjuuuu ... hows u dude???

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

thalib/casanova

thalib lol yes yes a cooler young boy :P

casanova fine buddy i allready passed to message . i hope i will get soon :)

Religious blackmail of gullible population under the threat of social boycott cannot be acceptable
Our politicians have a knack to make non issues into issues
As they neither have the intelligence not the guts to see behind next election
we are no more than cattle for them to be sacrificed when required
I wonder how such controversial matters may be raised with the tacit concurrence of our cabinet ministers
When religion is mixed with social & political life there can be chaos
Tomorrow they may refuse to sing sare jahan se accha…..
Its crazy to manipulate things in the name of religion…

Its a pity that even the most sensible member here turns oblivious when it comes to their religion… *sighhhh*

Just want to know ...what were the muslims in India ( and I mean who belong to the common people like me) doing about the song before it was brought to their notice through fatwa's, that it is against their religion....or they never sung this song ever...
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One life to live, live it to the fullest.

Wow… so many conclusions, just because I was out for lunch … gr8…

So, from where shall I start first???

Lets talk abt Winn’s post…

“In a country where you can sue a company for not getting a girlfriend after using a deodorant”-
I guess you are referring to a satire posted in a site called ‘fakingnews’ . It wasn’t a real incident.
Just coz I think that I don’t get justice in court doesn’t mean I can go on the street and do what I feel I want.

Well, is this something you are calling fake?

http://news.ninemsn....

Buddy I’m not somewhere from Kerala or any other southern state.
I’m a Delhite, and somehow I know the lawyer personally, ur above statement shows how definite you sound when you speak without knowledge, that’s the reason why I excused you earlier and again you are excused.

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you have a right to protest, I agree. But protest is one thing, boycotting and encouraging to boycott national symbols endorsed by the constitution is another thing. That’s exactly what is being done here. What you should do is impress on your elected representatives to raise the issue on the floor of parliament and then reach an amendment. You are a pretty decent size vote bank, so get it done. Courts can’t do that for you. Of course, it takes effort.

For your rest of the information I’m pasting one more link, which can give you an Idea what has happened to this issue in the court and parliament.

http://en.wikipedia....

Yaa… That RSS, VHP, BJP, I don’t wanna waste my time on talking abt them, because what they are doing to unite and promote India is visible enough with Naked eyes. (Better don’t provoke me to come up with their falsified deeds)

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Now since you don’t understand Hindi (your National Language) I cant do anything abt that, coz “Bharat Mata ki jai” means Hail India the Mother, not to bow the GODDESS DURGA or KAALI or any of thousands, but yaa I understand you can make a mistake here coz u are a Keralite and your mother tongue is Malayalam. (so again u are excused)

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The word Takbeer:
I don’t need to go back to any video or website coz I know Islam very well and this word exist in Islamic dictionary for more than past 1400 years and was used by all the Muslims fought for freedom of India.

Hope this suffice,,, and if you really want to discuss more abt that, please go through all the links and get the maximum information, I’m sure it will depart you from your pseudo-intellectual approaches.

Jai Hind (Hail India not Bow to India)

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

I suggest that for those who are not happy in India for thinking that it doesn't respect Islam, they can always move to Pakistan where everything is in accordance with Islam.

Nic...

Oh just went through ur profile, u are not an Indian..
So better stay away from our personal issues...
we can fight and resolve, its our very own problem...

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

I was talking abt this article.
http://www.fakingnew...

Anyways, it just goes to show that you can file any ridiculous thing in courts, especially in delhi, where you seem to hail from. Yet to hear anything like this from other states you so look down upon. I donno what it has to do with where I am from. (Looks like you did a bit of research on me). If you consider urself superior to anyone coz you are from some part of the country and he is from somewhere else, then all I can do is laugh at your face.

Btw, thanx for giving me that wiki link, I found this there:

“All India Sunni Ulema Board on Sept 6, 2006, issued a fatwa that the Muslims can sing the first two verses of the song. The Board president Moulana Mufti Syed Shah Badruddin Qadri Aljeelani said that "If you bow at the feet of your mother with respect, it is not shirk but only respect."

I have read the link carefully but ther’s no reference to any attempt made to change the national song or make amendments. Only issues were about to use it or not.

About your judgment that I cannot understand Hindi, you can clarify with any of the hindi speaking people on QL who have met me personally. I do not need to prove it to something like you.

“not to bow the GODDESS DURGA or KAALI or any of thousands”
Vande Mataram also does not mean Bow to Kali or any other goddess. It means “Bow to Mother” It seems your own hindi needs some revision.
The stanza you are referring to just compares the power of the nation to that of the mythical goddess and does not give the meaning bow down to goddess. Anyways that stanza is not sung when you sing the national song. Listen to it more carefully next time.

Nobody is denying that takbeer existed for 1400 years long. The point is it wasn’t as commonly used during the freedom struggle as Vande Mataram. Hope you can get your head around that.

(Better don’t provoke me to come up with their falsified deeds).
Oh please, I am soooo scared!!
LOL…please do come up with their ‘falsified’ deeds, whatever that means. I have no issues with that. I myself has spoken against em before.

Casanova: Differentiating between the debate and the person needs maturity. Hope you can grasp that.

Abt Nic or whoever else commenting on the problem:
This is a public forum and he has as much right to comment on this forum as you do. You dont own the forum, casanova!

"today it's the song...what tomorrow? ..."

Well here is your answer, from the same group as issued the song 'fatwa':

India Today wrote:
Veiled burqa threat from Jamiat faction

Sowmya Aji
Deoband (Uttar Pradesh), November 3, 2009

Urging Muslim women to wear the burqa, the Maulana Mahmood Madani faction of the Jamiat Ulema-i-Hind has said women who favour clothes other than the conservative attire bring disrepute to the community.

“Our girls are going out in other kinds of clothes now. All you men here should ensure that our sisters, mothers and wives wear the burqa. We lose honour and modesty because of them and, if this continues, we will never recover from the disrepute,” a mullah said at the Jamiat’s general body meeting on Monday held in this conservative seminary town of Deoband. The Jamiat is endorsed by a body of 5,000-odd men.

In line with the Deobandi thinking, which the Taliban claim influenced them, the Jamiat came down heavily on women in several resolutions.

Individual mullahs from all parts of the country, speaking on the various resolutions, made it clear what they feel a woman’s status in society should be - “secondary and subdued”. The Jamiat also disapproved of 33 per cent reservation for women as “unnecessary and unacceptable” but wanted separate reservation for Muslims.

Another resolution suggested the setting up of “social reform committees” in all villages, whose job among other things includes stopping the youth from watching cinema, TV and “other moral killing things”.

http://indiatoday.in...

So they are basically a bunch of guys telling people what to do. I guess one should take all their 'fatwas' with a pinch of salt and pick and choose or......follow all of them to the letter.

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."