Teen jailed for mother's murder

Daniel Bartlam killed his mother Jacqueline after a row in the middle of the night
Continue reading the main story
Related Stories

Teenage killer's soap fantasies
Boy guilty in hammer murder case
Boy 'killed woman and burnt body'
A 15-year-old boy who murdered his mother with a hammer and set her body on fire has been detained for a minimum of 16 years.

Daniel Bartlam had denied murder but admitted the manslaughter of his mother, Jacqueline Bartlam, following a row at their Nottinghamshire home.

Nottingham Crown Court was told she had been beaten seven times with a claw hammer, fracturing her face and skull.

A soap opera murder plot and violent TV clips were found on Daniel's computer.

Reporting restrictions preventing identification of the teenager were lifted by the court following his sentencing.

Mrs Bartlam, 47, was discovered by fire crews at her home in Georgia Drive, Redhill, Nottinghamshire, in the early hours of 25 April 2011.

Coronation Street
After being beaten, her body was then padded with paper, covered in petrol and set on fire, the court heard.

Daniel, who was 14 at the time of the killing, told police an intruder had killed his mother but detectives found a written "soap opera plot" on his computer in which he fantasised about his character carrying out a killing.

Jacqueline Bartlam was struck with a claw hammer seven times
The court heard he had been particularly interested in a Coronation Street storyline involving the character John Stape.

In the soap, Stape had murdered a woman with a hammer and then left her body in the wreckage of a tram crash.

It was also revealed Daniel had been watching violent horror films since he was eight and had viewed the film Saw hours before killing his mother.

The teenager claimed he had been provoked into violence when his mother called him "a freak" during their argument.

He was found guilty of murder at Nottingham Crown Court on 9 February.

The jury heard authorities raised concerns about the boy's behaviour in the months before the attack.

He told a counsellor voices were telling him to hurt people and that he had had visions of killing people, the court was told.

'Chilling violence'
However, several experts had concluded Daniel was not mentally ill and did not pose a risk.

Judge Julian Flaux described the killing as "grotesque" and "senseless" and said it seemed like the teenager wanted to "get away with the perfect murder".

Det Ch Insp Kate Meynell, who led the murder inquiry, said after sentencing: "The level of violence, degree of planning and extent of his lies is not only shocking, but it is also chilling that a boy of 14 could do this.

Detective chief inspector Kate Meynell: ''He stopped at nothing to try and get himself off the charges he was facing''
"You can only imagine the impact that this has had on Jacqueline's family, and having spent time with them throughout the investigation and subsequent legal proceedings, I know this is going to be very difficult, if not impossible, for them to come to terms with.

"This murder has devastated everyone involved. There is only one person who knows why it happened, and Daniel has lied consistently throughout, making attempts to besmirch Jacqueline's character.

"Everyone who knew her knew she lived for her children and was a warm, loving mother.

"Maybe one day Daniel will tell the truth, as there are several gaps that only he can fill."

A statement issued on behalf of the family said: "We find it so hard to explain what we are going through.

Daniel tried to destroy evidence by lighting a fire
"There are no winners here because not only have we lost Jacqui, but we have lost Daniel too because of what he's done.

"We know it was the right result at court, but trying to understand how a boy you have loved for 14 years can do something like this is so difficult.

"To find out that Daniel planned to kill his own mother and then hear all the details, it is all so hard to believe.

"The most difficult part for us and something that only Daniel can answer is 'why?'"

Comments

Bachus

What is the point of this? This happened in England. Are we in danger of the murderer moving to Doha?

jjj75

irrelevant. Also, it always perplexes me here that violence on TV and movies is rampant yet they censure kissing (last time I went to the cinema to watch a Bond film, they cut the kissing scene so badly that the film made no sense after that) - there tried to bring it back round to Qatar for you all.

shisha202

Bachu its not about a murderer moving to Doha ...its about how/why a 14 yr old can/need do this to his mom...

MUSE

No Bachus... i think its a nice post to read... but so sad that someone can do that to his own mother...we wonder why?

jjj75

BG - unlike the teens here in their fast cars driving aggressively??

MarcoNandoz-01

Sheisha. No sane human being would kill his own mother. It’s a sickness. The boy told 3 or 4 different doctor’s weeks before the incident took place that he done it that he heard voices telling him to kill and them more or less told him there was nothing wrong
The reality is there is no sufficient help for people with mental issues all around the world to get seen in hurry and definitely the UK is as far behind from being sufficient as those other countries.
I have a friend from X country with mental problems and he have to wait months, sometimes over a year, before he is seen by an "expert"
I pity the boy and will pray for his poor mom.

jjj75

BG - there is an awful lot that goes on here that neither you nor I know about.

I have a friend that was kidnapped and badly beaten up by a Local man in his early 20's. She was in hospital for weeks with internal bleeding, broken bones etc.

the police captain advised her it was in the best interests of all 'not to pursue it' To this day, years later, neither a whisper of it was ever in the paper nor did this person ever servce any time in prison. Violence does happen here but we, most of the time, will never get wind of it.

jjj75

BG - actually, I was trying to help the OP by bringing it round to Qatar, otherwise I fail to see what relevance is has to Qatar Living - I am performing a public Service.

Baburao-Ganpatr...

i in my wildest dreams wont harm my mother or anyone else mother under any circumstances ( even while watching horror movies )

Baburao-Ganpatr...

u can help on ur own individual forum and u have no links to ur stories it always on "hearing" basis

shisha202

jjj75 wanna know y i posted this in QL...to warn people out here that world has changed a lot and to take care of their kids activity too....

Miss Mimi

Yesss...because kids never used to kill their parents in the past....

jjj75

BG - I think you got into trouble for calling me the L word yesterday so don't try it again today. So, how can it be hear say when you actually know someone personally who this has happened to? I think it is disgusting that you take beating a woman up so lightly that you think it is made up, that makes me sick.

Ps please look up the definition of hearsay, you obviously need a lesson in semantics

smoke

Now we will have to hear about why soaps are bad for kids and that its the parents fault for getting in a row with their kid. Or perhaps its the hammers fault for being in the wrong hands at the wrong time?

MarcoNandoz-01

Jjj75 said: There are a whole bunch of irrelevant threads posted on Qatarliving every day. People start complaining about the irrelevancy of a thread and cry foul only when the thread is hitting close from home.

Well at least the OP has his done his homework and provided the source link to his story.
What’s the source of your story JJJ75?

smoke

Marco every story does not need to have a source and esp in Qatar every story does not get reported...its a fact, lets not jump and catch the bull by the tail.

jjj75

Known to me personally, is that close enough for you, or do I have to give the name of the person involved? MN, it is not nice that someone is basically telling you that what you say is false - I have never said that about a fellow QL'r no matter how offensive their comments.

Please note that hearsay is defined as not something you here or see or experience first hand. As I did see this first hand, it is not hearsay.

Baburao-Ganpatr...

i have many stories to share on hearing basis but the mods wont consider it n neither the mighty ones will admit to it

smoke

Triple J its no use wasting a breath over this..trust me you will just be offering your head to the wall to be banged and bashed.

MarcoNandoz-01

Any thread that has no source or link for readers to closely examine and cross check its contents is unreliable and cannot be taken seriously.

Well. At least to me.

smoke

Marco yes when you are posting something on an online forum as a thread for discussion source is relevant. When you are narrating a personal incident tell me where would u like the source to come from?

cherukkan

There are plenty of QLers who are interested to read and comment the posts which are irrelevant to many others.

Rizks

French fries always taste good with tomato sauce....:)

jjj75

Smoke - also, if they allowed things to be reported in the newspapers, as the incident that I recounted almost certainly should have been, I would have a source! But as it is, we live where we live and let us not print anything that may look bad for a local, despite my friend who will live in constant pain for the rest of her life and never mind the mental harm it has done her, just so long as this is not reported.

MarcoNandoz-01

jjj75: This is a very serious accusation/allegation you are making in a public forum (woman kidnapped and beaten up) is not same like a taxi driver got egged or some local kid pushed in on a KFC queue. And you were the only witness in this case? Did you report the case to the Capital Police Department?
How am I supposed to believe all that? I’m not accusing you of telling a "Lie"
I’m simply asking you to back up your story and present evidence.

jjj75

MN - it was the police who told her to drop it. I believe she did change her mind later and decided to pursue it but she is not finding it an easy road to travel. She now really prefers not to discuss it as it is a difficult topic for her. As I have not implicated anyone by naming names, there are no allegations to make. i was trying to make a point that violence happen everywhere, UK, Europe North America. This is not a new phenomenon, as I pointed out to MM with the infamous Lizzie Borden case in America (accused of hatcheting her parents to death).

Baburao-Ganpatr...

back to topic why wld one want to kill his own mother, after this incident all parents need take precautions against their own kids

Korly

I can guarentee you that this story and many others are true.

Living with a local family, I hear many things that happen in Qatar that are never reported. I have seen and experienced things here that would shock even open minded westerners, but does anything get done about it? NO.

Who cares anyway... its their country isn't it?

Captain_Lost

That is some sick kid.. :

Im sure no sane person would do ever do that .. its sad :(

Baburao-Ganpatr...

another hijacker the topic or incident is no way related to qatar and again no evidence or proof of the things happened n never reported

2020 Olympics

Very said for a society to have such a thing in its midst.

Marco--this is their style of argument. Documented murder or other bad think happens in their country; they say similar things happen in Qatar with NO EVIDENCE as a way to hijack the thread.

btw--most assaults against women in the UK go unreported as well.

MarcoNandoz-01

jjj75 : Yes I can't agree more. Violence is not a new phenomena and Qatar being part of this big world is definitely not an exception.
However I think you do agree with me that living in Qatar it’s much safer than many other countries.
Mine included.

2020 Olympics

A very reasonable response Marco. I await the Unreasonable reply.

Baburao-Ganpatr...

violation of guidelines ur going on hijacking the topic n still not warned sumtimes i too wish to have a green card u get wasta on ql too

flor1212

you know, "child abuse" and "protection" things?

jjj75

Actually - there are thing that happen at RLF that would also make your hair curl that never get reported. Again, I personally know this because i had a friend who was Ex Navy and chief SHE manager up there, suicides murders etc but again, I am sure I will be called a a liar etc

2020 - she did report the assault, she was told by the police to drop it!

MN, define safe, you cannot use that term in such a blanket fashion. road deaths per 100,000 are 800% higher than the UK, this I do not call safe.

Baburao-Ganpatr...

murdered his mother with a hammer and set her body on fire omg he had the guts to do all this to his mom who gave birth to him

Missteacher

Yes flor1212 - With cases such like in the film, Precious (for example),there are cases where parent's are mentally, psychologically, physically and sometimes sexually abusing their kids. In cases like these where the kids finally take no more and commit murder, although not right, I can understand why they may commit this crime.

However, if it is just over a silly argument like the story suggests above then it really is a very different matter, and a scary one at that!

shisha202

jjj75 in every country there are many unreported crimes which means that Qatar is no exemption, and yeah ofcourse there r many crimes which are settled outside the court...you can open a seperate forum to discuss that n dont hijack the topic ...

Miss Mimi

I highly doubt that he killed her because of an argument or because he watched violent movies. Obviously he was mentally unstable (remember that the court's definition of insanity is if the murderer is aware of what he's done and aware that what he's done is wrong) or suffered from abuse, more likely both.

jjj75

shisha - I was trying to do you a favour by bringing it back round to Qatar - after all, this is Qatar living???

Baburao-Ganpatr...

neither the parents can trust their children nor the kids can rely on their parents as they risk the babies life in the hands of dangerous nannies

jjj75

BG - I don't think that anyone is challenging the MODs?

shisha202

jjj75 as i have said i posted this to alert the parents to keep an eye on their children...in this case the boy started to watch horror movies right from 8 years n it has influenced him a lot which resulted later on murdering his own mom...and now this is an era of globalization kids do watch movies at this part of world too, so its always better to keep an eye on your kid...

Baburao-Ganpatr...

jjj75 ur since yesterday HSBC forum u diverted the topic to QNB n other local banks bashing now ur doing the same still see the influence & at the same time creating stories which have no evidence

CTMQ

Its sick when someone does this, no matter where in world it happens.

I am sure citizens of England keep them-self well updated with news and events concerning their country.

smoke

Why talk about murders being reported in the UK and US in the first place..this has nothing to do with QATAR...i think its time this topic is deleted. :D

jjj75

BG - poor didums, you a bit sore after yesterday when you got into trouble with the MODs???

smoke

Shisha if you want to alert the parents of Qatar then post a topic with a murder happening in Qatar...so we can discuss it.

Missteacher

Ive watched horror movies since i was a teenager and have never had urges to murder anyone! I think it's more than just watching horror movies and seeing crazy storylines from Corrie. There has to be other underlying factors or mental issues with the child.

Baburao-Ganpatr...

see the mod spoke up n he wants qatar bashing topics and they sleep when forums from Saudi and UAE are posted

2020 Olympics

I once had a friend that saw Martians living in her closet. So it must be true universally that Martians live in everyones closet. Gotta love the logic.

Yes jjj75, the UK is sooooooo much safer that Qatar. ROFL.
The UK was #1 in the number of violent crimes per 100,000 people in Europe--and ahead of South Africa and the US.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Euro...

This study put the UK as the highest in the world
http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/countries-with-highest-reported...

According to the Guardian, the murder rate in England is twice that of Qatar.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2009/oct/13/homicide-rates-count...

2020 Olympics

No country is completely safe and every country has crimes that go unreported for many reasons. But some countries are verifiably safer than others.

shisha202

Smoke it was really shocking to read this news for me as a parent and as a child...not in my wildest dream i could imagine this...so thought of sharing it with other QLers...i hvnt posted this for the purpose of bashing....

2020 Olympics

TFS Marco, but I am afraid that you are using too many numbers for this lot! Lol.

Baburao-Ganpatr...

yup and a few are so safe they rob ur money or atm card at gun point or just stab u n run off

smoke

2020 now you started bashing the UK hmmm? Which just goes to prove jjj's point all the more...just coz things do not get reported in Qatar as you may think nothing happens if its not on the newspapers u read then it must not be happening...all the statistics u've posted are of reported crimes I'm sure there are plenty others that are not reported there as well.

Point being you sometimes have to realize that there is a world outside your well.

jjj75

MN - as I said, you don't know what happens here because most of the time it does not get reported.

I do agree that crime might be lower than UK, however, there is no credible evidence to back this up and nothing gets reported!

Smoke, quite, this is QL and I still fail to see the relvance of this particular post to people living in Qatar

MarcoNandoz-01

JJJ75: check this out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_Kingdom

In England and Wales, there were 880,000 "Violence against the person" crimes in 2008–9, equivalent to 16 per thousand people. There were about 50,000 sexual offences during the same period, just under 1 per thousand. Other areas of crime included robbery (80,000; equivalent to around 1.5 crimes/per thousand), burglary (285,000; 5 per thousand) and vehicle theft (150,000; 3 per thousand).[8] England and Wales has a prison population of over 80,000 (2007 estimate), equivalent to 149 people per 100,000 more than the EU average.

(We are not talking here about rude LC drivers tooting their horns or trying to over take your car. we are talking about homicide, rape, armed robbery, sexual assaults and, arsenal acts and ugly riots)

2020 Olympics

Smoke--not bashing the UK. Just making the statistical comparisons in response to JJJ75's claims about safety. The sources are all from UK studies, not numbers I just made up or claims based on so-called personal experience.

And read my post above about unreported crimes. Happens everywhere.

Baburao-Ganpatr...

yes posting on saudi n uae is very much related to qatar living n they can stay without getting deleted

Miss Mimi

"lol according to miss mimi all killers -> Obviously he was mentally unstable"

Yes I think most killers are mentally unstable. I have a hard time believing that a healthy, happy, well adjusted person would kill someone.

2020 Olympics

"no credible evidence to back this up and nothing gets reported!". The sources I posted included Qatar in the study.

Crimes are reported in Qatar all the time. Sure some is not, but plenty in every country is not. So I'm not sure what you are arguing.

Baburao-Ganpatr...

miss mimi let me remind u as ur getting old n loss of memory remember last time i shared a news of soldier killing his land lord for fun he wanted to see how it feels like to shoot n kill oopp sorry no he was unstable

2020 Olympics

I agree miss mimi that all killers like this must be mentally unstable--although this is not excuse.

I wonder what drives them to this point? And why the rate of such killings are higher in some countries than others?

anonymous

did anyone raised the possibility that the kid might be hunted.

Guys did u watched the serial movies "Paranormal Activities"

The kid might not be mentally ill but he might be forced to do something if he is hunted. and he won't even remember that he did it.

This kid if he is not mentally ill he is surely hunted.

Horror movies won't just affect a kid to "ATTEMPT" perfect murder.

smoke

2020 just a thought here: Bigger countries with more liberal laws get more crimes being reported. Smaller countries with strict rules on what gets in the papers and what should be reported just to make the country look good on paper so that they show a good image of the country to the world have less reported crimes. Agree or Disagree?

MarcoNandoz-01

2022: I believe lack of proper mental care is the main culprit in this most unforenute incident.

As seen from the reports, the boy was telling his doc's about the voices in his head urging him to kill; still he was told there was nothing wrong with him.

I'd like to see his mental doc convicted of playing a complacent role in this tragic murder, and put behind bars.

Miss Mimi

BG I think killing someone to know what it feels like is the very definition of unstable.

2020, no I don't believe being unstable is an excuse, as long as they know right from wrong they should be punished. However, I think it's important to know the reasons why people kill, so that we can hope to stop similar things from happening in the future.

However I do believe killers being unstable is a reason to not have the death penalty. We are all victims of our circumstances.

Miss Mimi

An interesting piece from Psychology today:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200910/why-kids-kill-parents

Who Kills Their Parents?

There are three types of individuals who commit parricide. One is the severely abused child who is pushed beyond his or her limits. Another is the severely mentally ill child. And the third is the darling of the tabloids, the dangerously antisocial child.

By far, the severely abused child is the most frequently encountered type of offender. According to Paul Mones, a Los Angeles attorney who specializes in defending adolescent parricide offenders, more than 90 percent have been abused by their parents. In-depth portraits of such youths have frequently shown that they killed because they could no longer tolerate conditions at home. These children were psychologically abused by one or both parents and often suffered physical, sexual, and verbal abuse as well--and witnessed it given to others in the household. They did not typically have histories of severe mental illness or of serious and extensive delinquent behavior. They were not criminally sophisticated. For them, the killings represented an act of desperation--the only way out of a family situation they could no longer endure.

Only on occasion does a severely mentally ill child kill. These are children who have lost contact with reality. Their cases are often well documented with records of previous treatments that failed. Many of the cases are never tried; the killer is declared unfit to stand trial.

There are those few children who seem to kill without any remorse, yet whose parents seem to be loving and kind. The dangerously antisocial child is often the fodder of newspaper headlines. These juvenile offenders typically exhibit a conduct disorder--severely disruptive behavior that continues for over six months. These are the kids who kill their parents merely for some sort of instrumental, selfish end--never having to ask before borrowing the car again, for instance.

Baburao-Ganpatr...

mimi then so many unstable shldnt b left out to roam freely they r a threat to the society omg i shld stop going out now as the they might be here too

Miss Mimi

Yes you should BG, and get off the internet, the internet attracts all kinds of unstable people.

2020 Olympics

Smoke--interesting point smoke, but you might consider this. Liberal societies whose leaders are subject to elections have every reason to manipulate crime statistics in order to show the voters what a great job is being done. This leads to government manipulations of crime statistics. Far fetched? Here are two examples reported in the UK Telegraph. There are similar cases in the US, etc., and it is becoming a serious problem. These are just examples to prove my argument. Do you have such examples to prove your theory?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3245966/Serious-violent-crime-und...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/7140564/Nottinghams...

smoke

2020 unfortunately to benefit your argument i do not have any examples to prove my "theory" for if i did then the purpose of me saying there's no such things reported in the papers would be nothing but me talking crap..right?

Atleast there they get caught doing such things..its better than having such criminals amongst us running free and not knowing and having to live thinking we are safe.

smoke

How many people know of the body found in the drainage system of Qatar..was that reported in the papers?

shisha202

Does that mean that Qatar is unsafe to live...i find Qatar a safe place to live ....

MarcoNandoz-01

It's better to have a manipulated devised statistics system?

And how can you be sure they are being caught and punished according to law if the statistics you’re basing your argument/assumptions on have been proven to be manipulated and not wholly true?

Missteacher

I feel much safer in Qatar if I had to walk alone at night than if I was in Europe. Even though people stare a lot more here, they are much less likely to cause harm.

smoke

They found the skeleton of a man's body in the drainage system reported to me by a friend.

smoke

Marco cars do get stolen in Qatar, dogs do get stolen in Qatar just that you dont get to read about it in the papers. Over all yes Qatar is a safe country thanks to the strict laws enforced here. Agree to that.

smoke

Yes a friend who works in the drainage department. Now?

smoke

Happens in Qatar so goes to prove that it happens in Qatar..not blaming Qatar...if you dont understand english not my problem.

Baburao-Ganpatr...

tomorrow he comes up n tells he found not only skeleton but a whole body u will still believe him - lack of evidence here , story is from ur friend

smoke

If you want evidence you can go to the police and find out yourself.

smoke

No you want the evidence so go where you will find it.

Baburao-Ganpatr...

i will wait till it comes in media n believe what what media says like OBL is a terrorist ok i will blindly believe he is a terrorist , they found a body in the drainage ok they found i will believe it

smoke

yes thats up to you to "believe". But the point is it didnt get reported for it to come in the papers.

Rizks

i too heard frm my friend tat a monkeys skull was found stuck in a drainage hole...:(

Baburao-Ganpatr...

smoke u dint tell me this was the bald friend working for drainage dept ? for sure i cant believe him

smoke

Baburao do not go off topic..I have a friend working in Boom Construction as well...;)

2020 Olympics

Smoke--so because you cannot prove your argument, it must be true? I love your logic. LOL!

smoke

2020 i can prove my argument by all means, but all you need to know is this matter did not get into the papers...so LOL all u want :)

MarcoNandoz-01

smoke: a body found where? LOL is this some SHERLOCK HOLMES new addition I have missed?

I don't know about the dead bodies in the drainage which it seems only you smoke have seen it. , however I can assure you that be it outside my house or inside, and at any given time be it day or night either walking or in my car. I can walk on the beach at 3am I can run around Aspire zone at 12am I can park my car anywhere in the city and not worry about car thefts I can let my dog outside the compound and not be freaking at the thought of my dog being stolen. In short wherever and whenever in Qatar I’m always feeling safe in this country, and as safe as if I were inside my own house with the door closed and a 100 locks on.

2020 Olympics

OK, then prove your argument.

btw--newspapers are not the source for official crime statistics as used in the studies I cited.

smoke

You Cited an article from the telegraph, who says police dont report it...same here..papers dont get these reports coz the police dont let them or dont provide such information to the press.

Prove my argument...go ask anyone in the drainage department :P

Baburao-Ganpatr...

lol forget it 2020 or we might b advised to go to the cops n request them to see a skeleton ROFL

smoke

Exactly baburao, I've given you an example stating something that has happened and was not in the papers, i dont need to prove it to anyone that it happened or not, thats for me to know and for you to believe or not. If you dont want to believe and still live under the impression that such things dont happen then i cant blame you.

smoke

That proof with be with the cops..which is why i told you if you want u can go there and find it :)

Baburao-Ganpatr...

this has happened ok where is the proof to ur wordings which was again reported by ur friend n u dont have any clue abt it but to believe ur friend who tomorrow wil say OBL is a terrorist n u will believe ( just an example )

smoke

Proof to my wordings is in the Drainage Department you can go there and find out hahahhaha i can do this all day long monkey!

smoke

yes i believe my friend no one is asking u to believe my friend...and this is not about who has to believe or not. U want to, do so else move on.

smoke

the proof you need to authenticate my story.

Baburao-Ganpatr...

like this topic posted by the OP she provided a link , source evidence with the article ur story ?? u need to provide us sumthing with to believe

smoke

Smoke did..and smoke heard it from a reliable source in the drainage depart..and the evidence is with the cops, now if you want to authenticate the story go ask the drainage depart..and if you like evidence you go to the cops...next questions monkey hahahahha

insanityOO7

Lets not get into statistics, I think we all can agree to Marcos in this matter.

Anyone can feel the difference, I can't imagine being as safe anywhere in India if compared to Qatar.

smoke

no i dont..i can come here and tell you whatever story i want...do i look like i care if you believe it or not lol

Baburao-Ganpatr...

the ones who tell the stories have to provide the link or source so u need to get provide evidence not us going to drainage

smoke

Like i said monkey, sources that get published in papers will have links...stories told by people about stories that are not published will not have links...but see your small head wont comprehend this and you will keep asking ur questions coz u have lost this topic as well hahahahaa

smoke

Anyways i'm out...i'm done with the monkey here as well hahahaha lost again poor guy.

2020 Olympics

Smoke--was the death not recorded by the police? What is your evidence for this?

MarcoNandoz-01

:P smoky you sure the body you saw in the drainage wasn't the skeleton of a locally fattened rat ? :D

britexpat

"Parricide" ?

I am a little sceptical of the link between TV and societal violence. However, I do agree that there are kids/adults out there with psychological issues. In this case, the counsellors should have heeded the signs..

Miss Mimi

My thoughts as well Brit. Sorry, but if someone is saying, even if they are lying about it, that:

"He told a counsellor voices were telling him to hurt people and that he had had visions of killing people, the court was told."

Then how can any legitimate counselor say he is not a dangerous?

Log in or register to post comments