The Dark Side of Dubai

ummjake
By ummjake

This is really lengthy article, but if you have the time to read it (and I hope you do -- it's really great), it is VERY thought-provoking and interesting.

I'm curious whether people think that Dubai, the Disneyland of the Middle East, will ever collapse because of all the issues raised herein. Do you think they will ever start seriously addressing these issues (instead of just paying lip service to them, which is what it appears to be doing now)?

Do you think Qatar is headed down this same path?

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-s...

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By Dottie• 8 years 7 months ago.
Dottie

Adey - you are a classic example of 'what-aboutism' And FYI the British army definitely does NOT send 16 year old boy soldiers to Iraq and Afghanistan.

By fiwedding• 8 years 8 months ago.
Rating: 2/5
fiwedding

YOUR BUDGET RANGE WOULD BE FROM 2000 TO 4000; YOU WILL GET FULLY FURNISHED.

By lusitano• 9 years 10 months ago.
lusitano

You are welcome Tom.

Saying it and making sure it won’t get unnoticed is the minimum expected from all who have seen it!

By anonymous• 9 years 10 months ago.
anonymous

.. i appreciate what you said...

By lusitano• 9 years 10 months ago.
lusitano

Finally, the real truth about Dubai and some of its neighbors!

I sure hope that those who blindly endorse the public exhibitionism of wealth at the cost of hidden slavery will now come to their senses and will stop their contribution and instead will pressure for change and justice!

By anonymous• 9 years 10 months ago.
Rating: 2/5
anonymous

Johann Hari: How to spot a lame, lame argument

Saturday, 11 April 2009

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There is one particular type of bad argument that has always existed, but it has now spread like tar over the world-wide web, and is seeping into the pubs, coffee shops and opinion columns everywhere. It is known as 'what-aboutery' - and there was a particularly ripe example of it in response to one of my articles last week.

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As a rhetorical trick, it is simple. Anyone can do it, and we are all tempted sometimes. When you have lost an argument - when you can't justify your case, and it is crumbling in your hands - you snap back: "But what about x?"

You then raise a totally different subject, and try to get everybody to focus on it - hoping it will distract attention from your own deflated case.

So whenever I report on, say, atrocities committed by Israel, I am bombarded with e-mails saying: "But what about the bad things done by Muslims? Why do you never talk about them?" Whenever I report on the atrocities committed by Islamists, I am bombarded with e-mails saying: "But what about Israel? Why do you never write about the terrible things they do?" And so it goes on, whatever the subject, in an endless international shifting of blame, united in the cry: "What about them! Talk about them instead!"

This argument is almost always disingenuous. How do I know? Because when you write back and explain that, why, I do actually criticize Islamists/Israel/the US/China/whoever-you-have-picked-out-randomly, and here are the articles where I do it, nobody ever writes back and says: fair enough; you consistently condemn human rights abuses, no matter who commits them. No. They scrape around for another "what about." What about Tibet? What about Sri Lanka? What about North Korea? This list never ends, as the other side tries to draw your attention further and further from what you were discussing.

Independent readers have just seen a classic example. Last week I reported from Dubai, pointing out that this glittering city was built on what Human Rights Watch calls "slavery" - bitterly poor people who are conned into going there and forced to stay by a medieval dictatorship. Amongst others, I interviewed an Emirati man called Sultan al-Qassemi who passionately defended this system, saying that it is absolutely right that these workers are blasted with water cannons, arrested, and deported if they try to strike against their slavery-style conditions.

He did not react to my article by responding to the many criticisms I made of Dubai. He can't. He knows they are true. Instead he wrote a piece for the Independent asking: But what about Britain? He listed many things wrong with Britain - homelessness, detention without trial, the abuse of trafficked workers - and cried: talk about them instead!

As it happens, I have criticized all these things about Britain myself, in the British press, and in publications across the world. The difference is - Sultan doesn't oppose the appalling things about his own country. He cheers them on - and all he can do to distract from this shameful fact is to try to change the subject.

The best way to respond to what-aboutery is to state a simple truth. Say it slowly: there can be more than one bad thing in the world. You can oppose American atrocities, and Chinese atrocities. You can be critical of Israel, and of Islamism. You can condemn Dubai's system of slavery, and the fact people are detained without trial in Britain. You can stand independent of governments - including your own - and criticize anyone who chooses to abuse human rights. The world is not divided into a Block of Light, and a Block of Darkness; you don't have to pick a tribe and defend its every action.

So whenever you hear the cry "But what about?!", you can reply: what about we ignore this crude attempt to change the subject, and focus on the subject in hand?

By anonymous• 9 years 10 months ago.
anonymous

hari was right coz i spent around a year in dubai and i saw those things there...

By Winn• 9 years 10 months ago.
Winn

I think "what-aboutery" doesnt exactly fit the description for what mr.Sultan was trying to say. If you read his last sentence, "Because when you stitch together a collection of unconnected facts taken out of context, you end up with a distorted and inaccurate picture: something that Britain's Dubai-bashers would do well to learn." IMHO, his intention was to say that he did not agree with the way in which the journalist presented his findings/opinions and not that "Britain also has problems, why dont you look at that first."

and yes, I do feel, that the journalist was on a fault finding mission, even though i wouldnt say that those faults do not exist. They do exist and they definitely make me feel like I am also in some way a part of a system that oppresses fellow beings.

It is a problem that has to be addressed as much by the home countries (where these unfortunate people come from) as UAE. Those countries do have a responsibility to monitor the activities of agents, blacklist those who extort unreasonable amounts of money from these laborers, educate the people on what exactly their decision would bring them in terms of living conditions and wages, and verify that these agencies comply with the labor norms.

By anonymous• 9 years 10 months ago.
Rating: 2/5
anonymous

but then the classic thing happens, someone comments and tries to turn it into an Israeli/Palestinian issue!! Talk about changing the subject...

What they have in Dubai is what is called indentured servitude plain and simple and there are two people to blame for that. The govt in Dubai and the home countries who do not do enough to stamp out the agents that take advantage of these desperate poor people.

By adey• 9 years 10 months ago.
adey

Keep up! :D

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365

not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the

many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers

were given. Satan - 10."

By Roadtester• 9 years 10 months ago.
Roadtester

Tallg please PM Haris comment to goludumdum and curious but determined. ;P

Great minds think alike, but fools seldom differ. (English Proverb)

To the people who don't believe in free speech - stop posting ;)

By tallg• 9 years 10 months ago.
tallg

Quick summary;

7th: Original article by Hari; http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html

9th: Sultan's response in arabianbusiness.com;

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/552114-looking-at-the-qbright-sideq-of-dubai

10th: Sultan's response in Independent;

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/sultan-sooud-al-qassemi-if-you-think-dubai-is-bad-just-look-at-your-own-country-1666748.html

11th: Hari's response in Independent;

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-how-to-spot-a-lame-lame-argument-1667373.html

By tallg• 9 years 10 months ago.
tallg

It turns out the Sultan also wrote a response in the Independent; http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/sultan-sooud-al-qassemi-if-you-think-dubai-is-bad-just-look-at-your-own-country-1666748.html

That is what Hari is responding to. This has almost become as ridiculous as the arguments we have on QL!

Hari's response makes valid points. Turning the argument back on Britain is pathetic, and shows that the Sultan cannot answer the claims laid against his own country. And that's exactly what some QLers do all the time!

I like Hari's parting paragraph;

So whenever you hear the cry "But what about?!", you can reply: what about we ignore this crude attempt to change the subject, and focus on the subject in hand?

By adey• 9 years 10 months ago.
adey

"Say for example that I had written an article that states that, in wealthy first world Britain there are 380,000 homeless people, many of them mentally ill, starving and abandoned in sub-zero temperatures to live on the streets.

Say then that I wrote an article that states that Britain, the so called "jail capital of Western Europe" sentenced in 2006 alone a staggering additional 12,000 women to prison and that up to seven babies a month are born in jail where they spend their crucial first months.

I could have written an article that stated Britain, victor in the Second World War, had given refuge to 400 Nazi war criminals, with all but one of them getting away with it. Or one stating that the number of Indians who died while serving the British Empire, to build your Tube and grow your tea, is so large it is simply unquantifiable by any historian.

Or say I write an article about the 2.5 million-strong Indian volunteer army who served Britain during the Second World War, where 87,000 of them died for their occupiers' freedom and yet until recently those who survived continued to be discriminated against in pay and pension.

I could have written an article that stated that, in civilised Britain, one in every 23 teenage girls had an abortion and in 2006 more than 17,000 of the 194,000 abortions carried out in England and Wales involved girls below the age of 18.

I could have written an article stating that Britain, the human rights champion, not wanting to get its hands dirty, had resorted to secretly outsourcing torture to Third World states under the guise of rendition by allowing up to 170 so called CIA torture flights to use its bases. Or that Britain's MI5 unlawfully shared with the CIA secret material to interrogate suspects and "facilitate interviews" including cases where the suspects were later proven to be innocent.

I could have written an article that stated that the Britain of family values is the only country in the EU that recruits child soldiers as young as 16 into its Army and ships them off battlegrounds in Iraq and Afghanistan, putting it in the same league as African dictatorships and Burma.

I could have written an article that states that Britain either recently did or has yet to sign the Council of Europe Convention on Action against Trafficking in Human Beings, the United Nations Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the involvement of children in armed conflict or the UN's International Convention on the Protection of the Rights of All Migrant Workers and Members of Their Families .

I could have highlighted the fact that liberal Britain is responsible for the physical and racial abuse of hundreds of failed asylum-seekers at the hands of private security guards during their forced removal from the country .

I could have written about the countless cases of slave-like working conditions of immigrant labours such as the 23 Chinese workers who lost their lives in 2004 as they harvested cockles in the dangerous rising tides in Morecambe Bay.

I could have written about how mortality rates from liver diseases due to alcohol abuse have declined in Europe in recent decades but in Britain the rate trebled in the same period reflecting deep societal failures.

I could have written about how in "Big Brother" Britain maltreatment of minors is so serious that one in 10, or an estimated one million children a year, suffer physical, sexual, emotional abuse or neglect.

Or that according to Oxfam 13.2 million people in the UK live in poverty – a staggering 20 per cent of the population in the sixth richest nation in the world.

I could have written all that, but out of respect for Britain, I decided not to. Because when you stitch together a collection of unconnected facts taken out of context, you end up with a distorted and inaccurate picture: something that Britain's Dubai-bashers would do well to learn."

The Independent had the good grace to let Dubai based journalist have a comment section put aside for his rebuttal. Here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/sultan-sooud-al-qassemi-if-you-think-dubai-is-bad-just-look-at-your-own-country-1666748.html

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365

not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the

many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers

were given. Satan - 10."

By Gypsy• 9 years 10 months ago.
Rating: 3/5
Gypsy

Ya we are....this is the one I read:

Looking at the "Bright Side" of Dubai

by Sultan Al QassemiThis email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it on Thursday, 09 April 2009

Earlier this week The Independent published a lengthy article by Johann Hari headlined “The Dark Side of Dubai.” One of the prominent emiratis featured, Sultan Sooud Al Qassemi, hits back at the report.

Mr. Hari’s 9,000 word report on Dubai was just one in a series of critical Anglo Saxon reports published about the city. The schadenfreude emanating form the likes of Mr Hari is reflective of some personal issues they must have faced growing up in a socialist environment where globalisation and capitalism were frowned upon.

I have previously described such reporters as “tournalists” since they visit the city as tourists under the guise of journalism and enjoy a few days on the beach at the expense of their publication. These reports mysteriously always appear when the weather in Dubai is at its best. Surprisingly, in his extensive write up he was miraculously able to meet only silly sounding expats, which is statistically impossible since ten out of ten residents he interviews can’t all be depressed and full of spite.

Reading the article it evident that Mr. Hari was bent on highlighting the negative from the get go while completely ignoring all the positive developments that have taken place in Dubai. Last year for example Dubai introduced a new mandatory green building initiative signalling the emirate’s commitment to address environmental issues .

The visiting journalist then went to interview expat after expat, all of whom seem to be miraculously opening up to him and telling him of their deepest and darkest secrets, a highly improbable supposition for him to make.

I didn’t say that Emiratis are the most tolerant people in the world without grounds; I can’t imagine Britain having 55 million expats and only five million Brits.

Although I cannot speak for the others that he allegedly interviewed I am very sceptical about believing his stories merely because my own words were taken out of context and butchered. I said that we are a young country and we are “getting there” in terms of laws and regulations but we can’t do everything at once.

He made it seem as though I care as much for products as I care for human beings which is not the case, especially since I am heavily involved in an NGO and volunteer my time to teach youngsters in college.

Nor do I know how he made up the Ralph Lauren shirt comment that I was allegedly wearing since I have never bought one in my life. Concerning the strikes comments I said that I am against the violent strikes that had taken place in Dubai recently where police cars and public property were damaged and I stand by that statement.

Mr Hari conveniently omitted the word violent in my statements only because it makes his article more attractive albeit less believable.

By Gypsy• 9 years 10 months ago.
Gypsy

But Sultan didn't say anything about "What about Britain." I'm not exactly sure what Hari is responding to.....

By adey• 9 years 10 months ago.
adey

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-how-to-spot-a-lame-lame-argument-1667373.html

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365

not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the

many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers

were given. Satan - 10."

By Kaiiria• 9 years 10 months ago.
Kaiiria

Over the generations, GCC nationals have been traumatised by the desert mirage issue. Now they're paying back to the weak ones...

By anonymous• 9 years 10 months ago.
anonymous

... dubai is in trouble coz some people like you think bout only theirselves.... no offense ! lol

By tallg• 9 years 10 months ago.
tallg

Gypsy's right - too much opinion does discredit a new report, as has happened in this case. Equally though, I feel Sultan Sooud Al Qassemi does the same in his response by taking a swipe at the journalists "personal issues". But then his is an opinion piece so there's more license to do that sort of thing.

By Gypsy• 9 years 10 months ago.
Gypsy

I've heard the new "empty" Dubai is nice. I've always hated it before, so I'm looking forward to it now.

By genesis• 9 years 10 months ago.
Rating: 4/5
genesis

I personally prefer the new Dubai. Less traffic, easy parking, easy access to high end restaurants(Booking for a Friday brunch used to be at least 2 weeks in advance) & better services. For the past 1 year i struggled with the management at JBR for my apartment maintenance requests. In my last visit, everything went smoothly & on-time

By anonymous• 9 years 10 months ago.
anonymous

is it a she? are you sure?

:-)

search google, you will find his own website...

By Roadtester• 9 years 10 months ago.
Roadtester

True gypsy, but these days articles have so many leanings, and with so much media available people want to make a name for themselves within the morass.

Great minds think alike, but fools seldom differ. (English Proverb)

By anonymous• 9 years 10 months ago.
anonymous

... around a year and found most of the 'things' mentioned in the article are true...

By Gypsy• 9 years 10 months ago.
Gypsy

One of the things they always taught us in journalism school was to keep your opinion out of the article and to always try to show both sides of the story, the reason for this is because if its obvious that the article is your opinion (and this stands for general articles like this one, not editorials which are supposed to be opinion pieces) then you've lost all credit.

Even by simply mistating that Sultan was wearing a Ralph Lauren shirt the journalist has completely mis-credited his entire article. If you get one fact wrong, you pretty much have them all wrong.

By ummjake• 9 years 10 months ago.
ummjake

there about Dubai is the shiny, sparkly, glitzy stuff. So while I can certainly see that this article is not THAT, I interpret it as something written with the goal of tempering the "Dubai is Disney World" mentality.

The rebuttal in the arabian business mag that tallg posted the link to was interesting to read as well, but I think that like most Gulf citizens, that gentleman isn't used to critical press. He kept wanting to bring up the good things about himself and Dubai, but nobody is denying those things; they're simply not the topic addressed. The article clearly was intended to focus on the "dark side" as it was titled.

"Most plain girls are virtuous because of the scarcity of opportunity to be otherwise."

-- Maya Angelou

By Gypsy• 9 years 10 months ago.
Gypsy

The problem is that when they over sensationalize things it takes away the credibilty of the article, which is unfortunate, because there are issues here that need to be addressed.

By tallg• 9 years 10 months ago.
Rating: 2/5
tallg

Yes, you're right roadtester, any article is going to have a initial brief to work from, and in this case it was obviously something along the lines of "go and find out what's bad about Dubai". And as a result things will seem sensationalised. But we all know that a lot of the issues raised are happening out here, and it is good that the rest of the world gets to see that since it may put some pressure on the governments to take steps to improve things.

By Roadtester• 9 years 10 months ago.
Roadtester

Well obviously its going to be a bit sensationalised, and we have all critically pulled it apart here. But for some outside the region there is a perception that everything here is perfect, and at least its pricks ears. Working in Bahrain I knew of workers having their aircon turned off in the summer to save money while they were sleeping during the 'no working' hours and the slow fixing of water.

Great minds think alike, but fools seldom differ. (English Proverb)

By Gypsy• 9 years 10 months ago.
Gypsy

The plot thickens. Hmmm.....

By bleu• 9 years 10 months ago.
bleu

WOW!!! she found a local from Dubai?????

Most of the Emiratis in Dubai are from the northern Emirates: Sharja, Ajman, Fujaira, ....

By tallg• 9 years 10 months ago.
tallg

Looking at the "Bright Side" of Dubai

Sultan Sooud Al Qassemi, interviewed in the article, has responded on arabianbusiness.com, calling into question the motives behind the article and the validity of some of the information he gained. He also highlights the way his words were mis-used and how what he was reportedly wearing was made up.

In my opinion, apart from the bit in the first paragraph about the "personal issues" of the journalist, it is a commendable response. However, it doesn't alter the fact that some of what was reported is true and should be a major concern for Dubai and other Gulf countries. It

By anonymous• 9 years 10 months ago.
anonymous

Its just some article from a hate mongering bigot.

By arecel• 9 years 10 months ago.
arecel

if this global recession will not sink dubai, environment disaster will. a city without water and beaches swirling with unmentionable matter. soon, the desert will reclaim back its land..

kadaut...

By britexpat• 9 years 10 months ago.
britexpat

Everyone is to blame.. Especially those morons who think themselves better than others .

By teepatter• 9 years 10 months ago.
teepatter

Locals can not go on without support from ourselves.

By anonymous• 9 years 10 months ago.
anonymous

it will survive. When the easy cash runs out it could be a slow painful decline. I could be wrong and it may mature into a sustainable market but I doubt it. Like the man above says when you are fighting against nature you will eventually lose.

By anonymous• 9 years 10 months ago.
anonymous

This is one journalists view of life in Dubai. Dubai is not being liked as much as it was. Folks are turned off. Send a journilist into any country or city and they will find crap. All reported here happens anywhere.You're kidding yourself.

By FranElizabeth• 9 years 10 months ago.
FranElizabeth

I brought up the subject of this article at the pool today (toff toff) and apparently, Panorama covered it last week at home.

My mate worked in Saudi for years at the same time that I was in Abu Dhabi, and his point was that the West would not tolerate this treatment of fellow human beings..but the oil makes all the difference.

It's disgusting.. but we really do support it by being here. But what difference would it make? Intgrity over sense and the opportunity to secure a decent future for our kids..

By heero_yuy2• 9 years 10 months ago.
heero_yuy2

LOL

"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach

By Mom_me• 9 years 10 months ago.
Mom_me

Fine ummjake, you may have a point. But I am a bit sceptic as to why the doctors could not reach on time when jails have 24 hour dedicated doctors and helipads and other emergency services for such cases. I am not completely comfortable with the writer's point of view. Most parts she has highlighted seem to be correct but there are loopholes.By writer I mean the journalist.

By ummjake• 9 years 10 months ago.
ummjake

world have security measures, some probably a lot more high tech than what Dubai has. And still forbidden items (razor blades, drugs, etc.) manage to get into the prison population.

This is just the nature of life, especially in prison. If people want something badly enough, they will find a way to get it.

I'm not saying that contraband materials are rampant, or that prison security measures are completely useless and ineffective. But I certainly don't think you can say that a prisoner getting hold of a razor blade while in jail would be "absolutely impossible".

"Most plain girls are virtuous because of the scarcity of opportunity to be otherwise."

-- Maya Angelou

By Mom_me• 9 years 10 months ago.
Mom_me

BTW, just because I mention embroidery and painting as my hobbies don't presume I am a dumdum. Thank you.

By Mom_me• 9 years 10 months ago.
Mom_me

Goludumdum, did you even read 'Karen Andrews' story. She says her husband took loans from bank. He was in debt and resigned. Thereafter, he tried to leave the country and was caught (I presume at the airport) and jailed. Obviously he will be deported since he resigned, and in gulf the company cancels the visa after an expat resigns and leaves the country. When his visa is cancelled won't he be deported after serving jail.

I can understand if you are not aware about the 'jail laws'.

By Mom_me• 9 years 10 months ago.
Mom_me

Ummjake, not really. There is loads of security - constant monitoring. Have worked for a law firm.... All I can say is absolutely immposible. May be in movies or rather Indian movies/jail but not in Dubai.

By ummjake• 9 years 10 months ago.
ummjake

manage to find their way inside the prisons anyway.

I don't know why, but I would suspect that much like jail is here, you need friends/family to bring you certain things in jail (extra food, blankets, etc.) so by staying around she can at least go visit him occasionally, bring him something he might need (though sounds like there's a lot that she needs as well). I doubt she has delusions that they'll just go job hunting again when he gets out.

"Most plain girls are virtuous because of the scarcity of opportunity to be otherwise."

-- Maya Angelou

By Mom_me• 9 years 10 months ago.
Mom_me

Well goludumdum, I have worked in Dubai for around 9 years and I have known a lot of official facts through my assignments. Hope that satisfies your curosity.

By Mom_me• 9 years 10 months ago.
Mom_me

Few questions about 'Karen Andrews' story - why is this lady waiting for her husband in Dubai(in a car park with creased dress and begging for food!!!). Is'nt she aware that after the jail term is over her husband will be deported as he is no more having a UAE visa.

The Srilankan boy who was jailed along with her husband eats razors and commits suicide !!! Jails don't allow razor blades. So how ???

By britexpat• 9 years 10 months ago.
britexpat

If Abu Dhabi "bails out" Dubai, then they will want something in return..

Perhaps the recent announcement of "laws on public behaviour" is because of this..

By hariibon• 9 years 10 months ago.
hariibon

When Human "GREED" triumphs above all reasonings...

mayhem follows :(

By anonymous• 9 years 10 months ago.
Rating: 3/5
anonymous

Abu Dhabi. The UAE central Bank bought 10 billion dollars worth of Dubai bonds that were issued. (Its debt). Who is the major funder of the central bank.....this won't be the last amount of funds heading Dubai's way but most of it will be kept quiet. Dubai's debt rating was as bad as Iceland until Abu Dhabi stepped in, that tells you something about what is happening there.

By lamb• 9 years 10 months ago.
lamb

Something is curious about this article and similar others appearing in the British press. Whatever's written hasn't happened, in 2009 in Dubai. But you never saw such articles till the Brits made hay and the sun was shining. The biggest loosers of the Dubai bust has been those on the top and those at the bottom of the ladder.

The Brits in the article are hardly a great advertisment for themselves but they certainly represent the class of people who suddenly get riches which they dont deserve.

This wont happen to Doha since the "Q" companies have enough financial muscle and the holding fund here are strong enough to pump the money back in the local market if required.

Quiet lurker. Poor Contributer

By britexpat• 9 years 10 months ago.
Rating: 4/5
britexpat

I have met similar "expats" not just Brits in both Saudi an Dubai. They get great job titles, are called "sir" and "madam" by unddrlings and suddenly their egos take control of their brains.. The think themselves as "something special"..

To be honest, I found Dubai to be plastic and shallow. It is very cliquey on the most part and I am embarrassed , but not surprised at the comments by these Brits.

I recall going to a party in dubai once and the first few questions were - where do you live, what car do you drive, which school do your children go to and where is your driver from...

By Helloqatar• 9 years 10 months ago.
Helloqatar

An interesting question would be, what would happen to a local reporter that reports this type story. A lot of it could be written about Qatar as to the treatment of workers and the Sponsorship system. Businesses get away with most of these practices in Qatar, just like UAE.

It is interesting that the UN lets the Gulf get away with these practices, will let Gulf leaders be honored for there better practices.

By zirkwander• 9 years 10 months ago.
zirkwander

Quite disturbing, IMO..

By anonymous• 9 years 10 months ago.
anonymous

ever wondered why are we here???????

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

By yano_08• 9 years 10 months ago.
yano_08

i remembered pennypitstop....

with all her "moaning/whinning" thing :(

what comes around goes around....

_____________________________________

" fear always spring from ignorance.... "

_____________________________________

By Gypsy• 9 years 10 months ago.
Gypsy

The only thing is...what can we do? I'm not willing to go home and eat cat food cause I can't afford anything else...

By tallg• 9 years 10 months ago.
tallg

I agree Gypsy. We do support it, and articles like this make you sit up and think for a bit.

And unfortunately, commendable as it is, I don't think any amount of tipping will make up for some of what is going on.

By Vegas• 9 years 10 months ago.
Vegas

You can't teach experience...

By Victory_278692• 9 years 10 months ago.
Victory_278692

yesterday called Dubai Paradise.

Dubai is great only for visitors and tourists....ask and check about the people who are working and their life style.

Quote from the article about Dubai...quite true in terms of GCC....

top executives.

"All the people who couldn't succeed in their own countries end up here, and suddenly they're rich and promoted way above their abilities and bragging about how great they are. I've never met so many incompetent people in such senior positions anywhere in the world." She adds: "It's absolutely racist. I had Filipino girls working for me doing the same job as a European girl, and she's paid a quarter of the wages. The people who do the real work are paid next to nothing, while these incompetent managers pay themselves £40,000 a month."

By Gypsy• 9 years 10 months ago.
Gypsy

I try, but 9 times out of 10 that tip doesn't go to the labourer.

By hotandsticky• 9 years 10 months ago.
hotandsticky

What a crok of crap. It is so easy to see that she has sensationalized these dark happenings. I do not doubt the stories but to take this as the temperature of Dubai now would be BS. This article was clearly written much to the mindset of the low-life gossip readers. I have now lost total confidence in the INdependent.

By Vegas• 9 years 10 months ago.
Vegas

You can't teach experience...

By Gypsy• 9 years 10 months ago.
Gypsy

Yup. Whether we agree with it or no, or sound like the twats in that article or no, we do support what happens here.

I do think he should cut us a little slack in that, as expatriates we don't have much power to enforce change, however that doesn't make our hands entirely clean, we are still enjoying the slave society.

By teepatter• 9 years 10 months ago.
teepatter

No.1 LNG producer and no.3 in reserves..I hope what is happening with Dubai will not be mirrored here. Although you can already see the tip of the iceberg.

By FranElizabeth• 9 years 10 months ago.
FranElizabeth

This has really opened my eyes. Every time I drive on the Dukhan Doha road I see masses of these workers out in the burning sun- I have always tried to put my mind at rest by thinking that it is their choice to be here.. it's probably only short term... the money they make is probably a fortune to what they would earn at home...

I'm just as blinkered!

We have made a choice to come here for the money and is just a lottery that we were born Western- but I have 2 young kids to support and that was nearly impossible at home.

Is it as corrupt here, do you think???

By tallg• 9 years 10 months ago.
tallg

Gypsy, you mean because by being here we're basically supporting what goes on?

By Gypsy• 9 years 10 months ago.
Gypsy

Articles like this make me feel dirty.

By FranElizabeth• 9 years 10 months ago.
FranElizabeth

Tallg, I just read this too and likewise, the comments of the Brits made me squirm.

I wonder what Blackadder would make out of this.

By cynbob• 9 years 10 months ago.
cynbob

Sorry to Magic Dragon for not reading it earlier.

I am totally amazed to hear/read about another "maxed out" expat.

This article could serve as a teaching tool for those expats that want to live "high on the hog" when they arrive in the Middle East.

These are lessons learned the hard way. What a shame.

By Vegas• 9 years 10 months ago.
Vegas

I keep telling karin to get her money out of the bank.

But she says not to worry....

You can't teach experience...

By yano_08• 9 years 10 months ago.
yano_08

no such thing as infinite bubble growth... :(

_____________________________________

" fear always spring from ignorance.... "

_____________________________________

By sunset244• 9 years 10 months ago.
sunset244

i don't think Qatar could face the same by any way,

also Dubai will not fall easily, its just slowed down the speed for some maintenance needed, because lots wanted to get the best and step back,i think it will recover soon ISA. my regards.

By sunset244• 9 years 10 months ago.
sunset244

So as profits were unbelivable, the losses will be so, but still we hope it could be able to recover soon ISA. my regards.

By sunset244• 9 years 10 months ago.
sunset244

All this is normal as long as buildings is slowed more than 50 %.

By Arien• 9 years 10 months ago.
Arien

It is effected sunset.. worse than what we all see and expectd.

The latest news is that , their airline which declared 48 million dollars profit Q3 - 2008 is been given an offer of unpaid leave to their 12000 cabin crews...

here you go . http://thenational.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/viewer.aspx

There are places the crisis is least effected too, there are countries where toyota declared 32% increase in their first quarter of 2009 sales too :) .

______________________________________________

Listen to Many..Speak to a few.

By tallg• 9 years 10 months ago.
Rating: 4/5
tallg

Damn, that's a long article!

As with all articles like this it obviously has some generalisations and untruths in it, and its aim is to go out and find people who will paint a particular picture. But that picture clearly exists, as we all know already. So it's not really reporting anything that most of us weren't aware of, but the interviews are all very interesting.

(As a brit, I'd like to apologise for my fellow countrymen who were interviewed. What a great advertisement they are.)

It's hard to call what will happen to Dubai. The issues that have been around for years (slavery, expats, etc) wont cause it to collapse - if they were going to it would have happened already - but the recent financial crisis must be a huge worry. How long can it be bailed out by Abu Dhabi?

Qatar obviously shares many of the same issues, and they are treated in much the same way - look the other way, brush it under the carpet, everything is fine. Whether the financial crisis will bring Qatar down is something that's been discussed a lot already on QL. Qatar has more resources than Dubai, and hasn't gone as mad building stuff. But still, it must be a worry for someone, somewhere. At least you'd hope someone was worrying about it.

By ummjake• 9 years 10 months ago.
ummjake

I searched under the article's title and found nothing, so I posted it this morning.

Definitely worth the read,though.

"Most plain girls are virtuous because of the scarcity of opportunity to be otherwise."

-- Maya Angelou

By Arien• 9 years 10 months ago.
Arien

Nice article.. thanks for sharing.

Be debt free guys.. let the loans be from your home country :)

______________________________________________

Listen to Many..Speak to a few.

By MikaylasMom• 9 years 10 months ago.
Rating: 3/5
MikaylasMom

Here it is, it was Magic Dragon - Dubai - Paradise

http://www.qatarliving.com/node/453375

Motherhood...The hardest job you'll ever love! : )

By Gypsy• 9 years 10 months ago.
Gypsy

There's a Light Side to Dubai?

By SPEED• 9 years 10 months ago.
SPEED

By MikaylasMom• 9 years 10 months ago.
MikaylasMom

Oops, sorry tallg. I know I saw it on here yesterday because I bookmarked it. Can't remember the name of the thread.

Motherhood...The hardest job you'll ever love! : )

By tallg• 9 years 10 months ago.
Rating: 3/5
tallg

Nope, first time I've seen it.

By MikaylasMom• 9 years 10 months ago.
MikaylasMom

Was posted on here yesterday. I think Tallg had a link to it.

Motherhood...The hardest job you'll ever love! : )

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