Women. An equal partner or housemaid
Ok... I wanted to start a topic i know will stir up some emotion because theirs nothing like a good old heated debate.
Its mainly for the men here (but you lovely ladies are more than welcome (as if i could stop you anyway)).
What is a womans role in society? Is she an equal partner in your relationship, or, is she just an expensive way to get your laundry done for nothing.
No, seriously, i would be interested to see some views on this.Â
I also believe it is a sign of strength
We should also never be afraid to admit that sometimes we feel a little vulnerable, sometimes we need a shoulder (Man or Woman).
We should learn to respect that and not take advantage of it
I have had on of those men too, but even the strongest are only strong when they can show their weaknesses don't you think??
Question not statement:-)
Everyone has rights, some need help in protecting them.
I have seen women with black eyes and fat lips who say they 'fell' when asked
Not all are as strong as you appear to be.
The macho image has a lot to answer for I guess!
I like to protect womens rights I was always a little to outspoken in school which resulted in getting me into hot water often.
But I do remember my mother sending me out to fight with the boys next door because my older brother was scared of them and they were always hitting him and theywere scared of me.
I know a lot of men who help women and support them in the home this does not mean they are whimps
I took the comment from someone else's post, like I said I grew up in an era where these comments were commonplace
I recieved lots of words of advice in this vane when my wife left, gave her too much, too soft, house husband, sharing what's all that about?
Fortunately, I have a different viewpoint, that may make me sound like a wimp but we are all different
I am sure you are right but it is good to bargain your way through. I have done it and am satisfied I receive other perks.
"Does my experience make me think it is better to keep them â€˜Uneducated Pregnant and Barefootâ€™ of course not".
I find that comment coming from a man interesting.
Canarybird "perhaps the BJ is not the same for a women as it is for a man"?????!!!
I am certain that it isn't.
My ex and I lived together for 3 years. During that time I went to school and worked two part time jobs to feed us and pay for rent and such, I cleaned the apartment and did the dishes. He cooked, and sometimes he wouldn't even do that because he was tired so I had to pay for us to eat out.
I don't recommend that.
I decided to type this elswhere in an effort to join in but got carried away! I seem to have lost the plot since then but as I had typed it thought I might as well post it
"I come from the north east of England and grew up in a mining community. In an era where the men dug for coal and women stayed at home looking after the house and children.
We wore hand me down clothes, shared hot baths in a pecking order, working father first, working sons next.
Life was a struggle for most; education for women was not something we talked about. My mother cooked, washed, ironed, sewed, knitted fed us and still found time to care for her own aging parents.
They appeared happy despite everything, were inseparable, walked arm in arm to church on Sundays and they both died in their 70â€™s,
Me, I wanted something different, wanted another kind of lifestyle. I studied and eventually went to university.
My wife was well educated, we were partners, and we shared the household chores
I played the house husband once, (Didnâ€™t have to get up until 7 am in the morning, did the boys packed lunches for school, ironing, washing up and then drank lots of coffee with the other mums!)
Eventually my wife went back to staying at home, a year later said she was bored, took the boys and ran off with someone else.
Is there a moral to the story, probably not?
Does my experience make me think it is better to keep them â€˜Uneducated Pregnant and Barefootâ€™ of course not.
My experience tells me that we sometimes have to work harder at the things that are most important. Each has a different role to play depending on circumstance
My second wife graduated from music academy, played in a concert orchestra, took her MBA, works in PR and is still a part time pianist
Her cooking usually results in a fairly controllable small fire; housework generally consists of giving instructions to whoever is listening.
We are still friends first; share the things that need to be done, ignore as long as possible the things we both hate to do, then pay someone else to do it.
We both come from different cultures, totally different backgrounds, but we see our role as equal partners
PS. Sorry, I do go on sometimes, I have enjoyed reading through the posts, I donâ€™t usually have time to join in.
Enjoy your weekend
Finally it did but most of the comments came from women.
However, we as women still do the same jobs as men (often better) and are still paid less there is no real reason for this just perhaps we don't bargain as well or even perhaps the BJ is not the same for a woman as it is for a man. This logic beats me.
No he did not tell her to act her age but made her aware that the 27 year old lover - although he will age in the next 20 years - she will age much faster as she is already 60 and the rapidness or her change will not be the same as that of he lover.
Must admit though she was quite a stunner for her age - nice body - nice legs and of course nice wig lol.
Well the topic certainly had the desired effect and stirred things up GIASI. :D
I'll bite, but GIASI will call me a wimp...Anyway, my wife and I are equal partners. She cooks (because she's better at it!)...but I help prepare the ingredients. One of us will throw a load of laundry in and the other will fold it...etc I call it harmony and it works well. We respect each others opinions and make decisions together. We both work so that also changes certain "traditional" dynamics.
What some men call traditional seems completely alien to me. I could not imagine being a dominating husband. The "I want my dinner on the table when I get home" crap is from a different era and I could never live like that. I respect my wife too much for that.
Same difference. I meant exact same thing, read it again - I said there are no roles that spouses SHOULD PLAY. As in, you can't say that a woman SHOULD stay home, and a man SHOULD be a sole bread winner. They can if they want to :D
Yes there are "roles" that are defined. You just gave us examples of your parents roles. You mean there are no predetermined roles. The main issue is that its a consensus between the couple. Noone should be forced to take on a role that they are unhappy with. In that case, you are in the wrong relationship to begin with.
My mom worked part time when I was very young, and it was cool. She went back to full time when I turned 7. She didn't need to work, she just wanted to. My parents are one of the happiest couples I've seen. My dad does most of cooking now, and my mom does the DIY. There are no "roles" that spouses should play anymore...
I think I prefer when both spouses work. I for one had WAY too much time with my Mom.
I didnt say that the traditional way was the only way. What i said was that it is my preference. Soley because i have no need for my better half to earn and i prefer my children to have unfettered time with their mom. I would liken it to an "equal but different" relationship. We can both have different roles which are as important as each other. Equality isnt about symmetry. We dont have to do identical things to be equals.
i am certainly not averse to women having careers. I have worked with alot of competent woman and i agree, they should be paid as much as their male counterparts.
I think everyone wants to live the child in him/her often..and what better way to find the "mother" sometimes ..Only if the man is willing to play the "father" at other times...
The thing about swinging and trying to look interested seems fine once a month or year...but if one has only a club or bar to go every night to socialize..then I guess that life has no meaning (A very personal opinion..not meant to open any can of worms..)...If someone is doing that every night despite the lady at home..then I guess she is not there...
I met a boy here in Qatar with very lovely blond hair. I wish I had his hair. :) Let me guess CB, Dr. Phil was telling this women to act her age?
I just happened to turn on my TV for a short mometn yesterday - and guess who was there - yes you got it Dr. Phil I was in a hurry but he had a lady on there over 60 with a 27 year old boyfriend and a bodly like an 18 year old who was thriving >
Good for her.
Yes they are but those days are gone since men heard about equality and havin 2 cars in the family
I'm glad for you that you have "lovely hair" this is something I would describe for a woman and not for a man.
Mind you having said this I would like to tell you what happened to me three days ago...
In the summer I get my hair cut short as it is very thin and fine so short is the best - but after coming from the hairdresser two Qatari boys followed me and kept asking if I was gay?? I am very womanly to put it mildly. LOL
I agree completely with you Canary bird, what I was saying is that most men probably do to. We've come a long way, but we still have a ways to go. Equal pay, more representation in government. What I'm saying is that GIASI's idea of the traditional stay at home mom, with her heels, her vaccum and her plate of cookies doesn't really exist anymore. Women are more educated and have more liberties than they did 50 years ago, and we will continue to get more.
I think there are men out there who are looking for their "mothers" but those women are getting harder and harder to find.
yes swinging is the real thing eh!! Ladies at home - well they probably have but then...............
Quite right they are!!!
Look the men should be out on the front just as the women are.
The women work harder and get less money than the men generally.
The men take all the liberties their mothers gave them (in most cases).
Women have stronger minds than men (but more tempremental) their stress factor is mostly higher than men.
Women can stand more pain than men this is a proven fact.
Women can make fundemental decisions as far as family is concerned why not for a Country.
We did not only have a Patriach society we did also have a Mastriarch society.
Their ladies are not at home, they are probably dancing elsewhere having fun :p
I would like to think that the men aren't getting invloved because the traditional role of women is long dead and buried, at least in the West, although it is even happening here in the Middle East.
Most men that I have met that want a "traditional" women have set their sites to Eastern Asia. But even those women now are not as traditional as they were 10 years ago.
The world is changing and so are gender roles. It's a fact of life, and it's happened before.
I am still in my early 30's and have lovely hair...I happened to visit the few clubs in the city with friends ..and found the sights and sounds rather amazing..
Loads of over 50 men in faded jeans and PT shoes(Yes PT) swinging and trying to look interested...
I wished they had a lady at home...
Then this should answer the question ofthe person who posted this debate. However, in the end the women are taking more of the brunt ofthe family than the men. (Your husband excluded).
QC men are much more sensitive than women their ego is at stake!!!
They suffer much more from a damaging comment than a women does.
This is why they are not getting involved.
I am so enjoying this discussion
do you have a complex obviously you are balding!!! Cause women in ther 50's are taking over dear.
Most of my friends here have no other choice than to continue with their jobs because they cannot afford to live on one income only...having to leave the babies with the grandmothers. It is not ideal, of course, but often is the only choice.
I also think that men would make great homemakers (my husband would!)
I disagree for several reasons:
1) In todays economy (Western economy) it is virtually impossible to have a single income.
2)In many cases the wife earns more than the husband, so shouldn't the husband be the one to stay home?
3)Men are excellent caregivers, they can cook and clean as well as any women, certainly better than I can.
My god... ive never seen so many male wimps. Where are all the chest beating cavemen chanting "i bring meat..you cook... unga bunga".
Heres my tuppence worth anyway. I am a great supporter of the traditional roles where the man goes to bring home the bacon and provide for his family while the woman takes care of the household and raises the children. However, i am not saying thats the only acceptable scenario. I just feel that men and women differ enough to be better at certain things than the other.
I am not demeaning the role of wife and mother. I honestly believe that it is more important than the job i do, for example, in the whole scheme of things. Its an often thankless job and i admire women who choose to do it.
I dont believe in role reversal because simply, i think men are often crap at managing a household and rearing children.
Now if a woman has a career that she wants to pursue, and no children are involved, good luck to her. I fully expect her husband to share the management of the home if she is sharing in the income provision.
I was waiting and waiting to read men's comments on the subject - and all I got was girls' comments. Now this is not fair.
I am not going to argue (nor am I going to shoot anyone, GIASI) simply because I don't see an issue. Thankfully, where I come from, we don't make a big thing out of who does the cooking and cleaning. It's either the one who can do it better, or the one who has more time to do it. At home we share the workload: I would load the washing machine, hubby would take the stuff to the laundry for ironing and so on. Also, I am pretty immune to discriminating and misogynist humour. I am sure that it's men with no luck in attracting real women who make this stuff up and I can't be really angry at people who already suffer :p
As for being equal partners in a relationship - I believe it's up for grabs. If you behave like a carpet to be walked over - why expect any different? If you strive for better - it's all in your hands. I personally wouldn't be happy if either of us was very dominant - we don't own each other, and definitely we are not going to give orders and expect total submission. I would say we are mates, partners and sometimes we take turns to make decisions in things we happen to know better.
And just for the record since some others decided to share the info - I am 30, married (happily), childless (by choice), educated, employed with great salary and living here in Qatar not to make money (which I could never save anyways no matter how much I make) but to experience living in a different culture.
Not taking this thread too seriously...
A women is someone when at home with or without the kids is a realization that a man looks rather stupid at balding 55 trying to a buy a drink for a lady who is 30 years younger..and trying to relate a story how he and his wife were different person..Everyday...
YOU GOT IT
Butterfly don't be too sensitive on this theme it was a man who put it into the world and was expecting comments from men instead he managed to get the hairs on my neck stand up.
Nothing to say about cooking, nothing to say about cleaning, nothing to say about taking care of the home BUT the maid thing - I had to let my usual sarcastic self let go.
It is not such a serious discussion as far as I am concerned!!
Nothing wrong with that and as you said your hubby goes sometimes too.... the fact is that it is not your JOb to be in the kitchen all the time .. what's that phrase... barefoot and pregnant!
You know there are times that a woman goes to the kitchen, not because she is UNEDUCATED, but because she loves and cares for her family... And whatÂ´s wrong with that?
yes you got it right not only that but it's the place where a lot of men are working - probably not worth mentioning but the chief cook in the whitehouse was a man and the presidents wife actually sacked him because he belonged to the previous presidents wife my oh my
good cold beer is the thing although I prefer a Vodka myself. I cook very seldom and I have a man who cleans my kitchen every week as I don't have the time.
I am not quite sure where you are coming from - but be sure there a great many intelligent and very active Qatari women. I heard the princess from Jordan say "educate a woman and you educate as family", "educate a girl and you educate the future".
The kitchen is the place where I keep the beer cool.
What is this kitchen thing that you are all discussing. Is that the place where the waiter brings the food from?
Over 30, Educated, un-married, no children, excellent Salary, Great friends considered non promisscious and enjoys life and dosnt do chores if she dosn't want to....
No dear I understand your comments but this just happens to be a discussion I love and have plenty to offer lol
Oh good canarybird, for a second I thought you thought I was serious in my first post. Being well educated, unmarried and unattached and with a good job I can't possibly agree that women are better off in the kitchen. :)
I think womens right in Qatar should remain as they are ... I have a very rational explanation for this ...
right now from my experience Qatari male productivity is not very good that for sure but Qatari women have something to prove ... so they are better educated and try to outclass men
i feel that if they didnt have that then a lot of thier motivation would go away too....
Not at all DG but I love this kind of debate as it is right up my street, having worked all my life and have done many things for my husband (who has run off with the maid) lol, earned more money than he ever did spoke more languages than he ever did and did everything a man should have done around the house because I wanted and mostly because he was incapable.
as we can see from the comment from DG it is your gender who now have the shoe of the maids roll on - so are you an equal partner or just a hen pecked pantoffel??
By your better half you mean beer don't you GIASI. I think the problem is canarybird might think I was serious in my first post.
Don't sympathaize with me, my Dad and my little brother are the ones who have to wash the dishes.
i didnt say anything... i just started the thread (apart from the kitchen sink joke). Anyway, i am immune to Qatarcats and DGs weapons. My better half has desensitized me to physical and mental pain.
Then you have my deepest sympathy
I was in the kitchen last night cooking myself dinner when I got home from work before I went to meet my friends for a beer. And I do need the sink to do dishes because the dishwasher is broken.
Seems to me you haven't been in the kitchen in a long time dear we don't need the sink as often now.
Yes of course I know my place, obviously that's why I'm married, with children and home doing the dishes as we speak. ;)
I think you don't knowwhat you are talking about but here is the place to blow off hot air.
Yes, thats also why women have small feet, so they can stand closer to the kitchen sink :)
I think you have been watching the Dr. Phil programme to long dear - as he always says "Pick your Battles" well you have both feet in the battlefield now. I hope you get gunned down with every comment and bulldozed into the ground - morally speaking.
So we have at least one that knows her place! :)
I think women are meant to be barefoot, pregnant housewives. Educations is wasted on women.
Be careful boys. Qatarcat and DG are eagerly awaiting your responses. I can almost hear them loading semi automatic weapons as i write.
And believe me, they dont take any prisoners so if they kick your a$$ because you have a weak argument dont say i didnt warn you.
happy hunting campers
MUAHAHAHAHA (throws head back)
I think the fact that my sports socks give off a green gas and melt the laundry basket is her biggest concern :)
I donÂ´t think there is an ideal role for women today, but the good thing is that in most societies women have the choice to do whatever they feel fulfilled with.
Be it career, housemaker, raising children or just being a funloving girl, is it not just great to do it just because we choose to and not because it is what society/family/partner expects from us?
As being equal in terms of house chores... Well, I guess every couple is different. When I was working, my husband used to do his fair share of the cleaning, even thought he also had to work long hours. It is only when I had to stop working (my choice) to raise my baby that I do the cleaning, laundry etc, just because it is only fair.
So I will say, Equal partner. And if your g/f is the one who does the laundry, make sure that this is a situation she is happy with.
Bring it on boys! I'm interested in the responses to this too. ;)
LOL I can't wait to read the replies