it's not a question of racial agendas, super. i just refuse to acknowledge that people of colour fill american penitentiaries merely as a result of enforcing justice. It might be poverty, it might be ignorance, it might injustice, it might be a combination of several factors..but at the end of day there's no denying that there's something seriously alarming about these figures..
I wasn't being serious when I mentioned the US as a "fair" justice system. It is far from that.
As for a racial agenda to death row sentencing, It's common knowledge that minorities in the US make up the highest percentage of the lower class, so these people on death row are on death row because they couldn't afford the best lawyers, not neccessarily because they are guilty of the crime. However, I can't discount that a black man and a white man charged with the same crime could receive different sentences based on skin colour.
Timotheos would be the Greek version of that.
you can guess it since you're greek. It means honour god
my name is greek.
I thought you were.
Yes I was thinking about Australia when I wrote about Antarctica :)
No, Super, I am from Greece.
you australian then alexia?
I really don't think there is a racist agenda to execute minorities mochafish. Sorry.
I also believe that the US and the UK system (which are very similar) are the best available options.
I do not think that France's guilty until proven innocent is a credible alternative (although perhaps some of their aspects such as the panel of judges rather than jury has it's benefits)
Of course any legal system is going to have loopholes and I think that the current situation where the bias is towards innocence is the right one.
i am against death penalty, but if ppl want to go ahead and implement it, i wish theyd be more creative with it. no fancy switches, quick syringes. i want slow painful death. coz if the argument is eye for an eye, it's pointless for them to have an easy peaceful death. esp in a soceity that do not agree with euthanasia -- it's getting hypocritical and too complicated.
I am against CP. I think the criminals on death row should all be shipped off to Antarctica. You never know, we might get a beautiful sixth continent out of it someday.
yes. minorities residing in impoverished areas are more prone to commit violent crimes, super. But all recent studies point out to the glaring racial gap when it comes to death row sentences.
a simple case of applying the law? i think not..
Totally agree Super. Its far from a fair system where the rich can buy innocence. It isnt a colour thing its a money thing. OJ Simpson being a perfect example.
In saudi Arabia where these laws are effective,the shops remain open while the owener goes to pray ,now wat else u want for law and order.Now the method of punishment and real justice system alltogether different subjects.
In my opinion watever the punishment is it should be given to the right person and should be equally applicable to all sections of the society.
As I am not too much concerned about the way ur punished as long as the system is consistent.
I don't think it is the judiciary that is at fault for putting minorities on death row, they just apply the laws and the fact is that more minorities commit capital crimes.
This is because more minorities occupy the poorest sectors of american society so it is a wider issue
DG a judicial system that puts mostly minorities on death row isn't exactly a fair one. a judicial system that keeps inmates on death row alive for decades on no end is definitely not effective.
that being said i still oppose capital punishment all the way. I only mentioned the drug trafficking bit as an example for some countries where the death penalty could be deterrent for certain crimes.
I agree Super, these guys don't deserve life in a cushy prison, I think if you commit a crime you should be punished. I personally have nothing aganist locking them up Stalinist Russia style in forced labour camps with no heating and only moldy bread to eat. If they happen to die because of that, or from the attentions of other inmates, than that is perfectly ok.
Oh purrrleeease .... the American judicial system is a joke.
I support capital punishment in principal when its supported by a fair and transparent justice system.
Dg I didn't actually say I agree with it. I said the only point in it was for vengeance. I said it doesn;t work as a deterrent and I am not satisfied that the legal system is sufficient to ensure that the wrong person doesn't occasionally get the chop.
That said I can't say I would have big problem with pulling the switch/trigger/lever for someone who had been convicted with a reasonable (to my mind) degree of certainty.
I remorseless killer doesn't really deserve life in a cushy prison learning to be a lawyer or reading books.
Here is a little story to illustrate my point. We have in Canada a serial killer named Clifford Olsen. He was convicted of the rape and murder of 15 children in the 70's. For the last 3 decades he has been begging to be executed. Do you think he should be?
The US has a fair legal system and I would argue that its capital punishment is equally as useless, if not more so. Murderers sit on death row for decades before execution, and they become more celeberties than villans, to some Timothy McVeigh is considered a martyr.
Crime rates in the US do not vary noticebly between states that have or do not have the death penalty. And statistics show that 80% of those on death row are minorities and at least 85% do not have what is considered "normal" intelligence. Many suffer from severe mental disabilities and should be in institutes for the criminally insane not death row.
Thats unfair. Apart from Saudi and Afghanistan, no other countries do this. These two countries are, by no stretch of the imagination, model societies with fair judicial systems.
Capital punishment has to go hand in hand with a fair legal system, you cant separate the two.
Farhan, under your logic since Islamic society has been punishing people for theft by cutting off their hands too show others what will happen, then nobody should be stealing anymore. Yet people still steal, regardless of the punishment. So obviously it isn't really a detterrent now is it.
No. That is too severe. A lengthy prison sentence is adequate.
so for the sake of law and order to be effective u have to show a person with killer instict to stay away from that thought as he might be executed as well.
U know as per islamic teaching the hand of the person who is proved to be a theif should be cut off.Now psychlogically that is something which can prevent anybody from thinking or planning to rob a bank.
I agree, its not a deterrent because most murders are not planned and often committed under the influence of drugs or alcohol or in the heat of the moment.
Cold calculating killers would still do it because they never plan on getting caught anyway.
So you think people should be put to death for trafficking drugs?
The difference between murder and drug trafficking is that murder is often unplanned and not premeditated. In these cases it isnt a deterrent. Drugs on the other hand is a calculated risk. As the consequences get more grave, the risk becomes less attractive.
The death penalty has only been gotten rid of in some Western countries a few decades ago. Which means that the entire world has had the death penalty for thousands of years. Obviously people see what the outcome of murder is, so why do we still have murders.
Capital punishment is not a deterrent. It doesn't work.
I disagree, I thinks its a different difference. I don't agree with war either, but at least in that case you are defending your country, War is a case of kill or be killed. If you don't shoot or bomb the guys coming after you, than they will shoot or bomb you.
In the case of a murderer who has already commited the murder, been incarcerated and is no longer a threat to society because he has been separated from society, what is the point of killing him except for outright vengence. Which I would say is more similar to murder than killing someone in self defence or during war.
Hmmm well would you not say that the death penalty is a deterrent for drug trafficking in countries like thailand? or even UAE?
I come from a country wher people do not respect the law.No one has got the right to take another persons life.If those people do not get death penalty,their buddies will also do it.These crimmanals in my country commit any crime so that they can go back to prison where they are looked after.Death penalty should be kept.When a loved one has been taken away from you unnececarily you wil all feel the same.
Doha girl,to give someone capital punishment has some objectives and one of the most important is to set an example for others and specially for those who have criminal minds so that they would see the end result of their prospective plans.
The same difference that distinguishes between a cold blooded murderer and a soldier.
Farhan there is a HUGE difference between punishment and capital punishment. What I'm saying is that I don't believe in execution.
Doha girl ,suppose if any of ur loved ones is murdered by someone,would u still say tht this person(should not be punished as we dont have any right to punish him.Come on
And that they would have no issues killing someone themselves. So what makes you different from the murderer?
So What GIASI and Super are saying is that murder is ok as long as its a form of revenge?
Fish but that suggests that CP actually works as a deterrent. It doesn't. The only reason to use it as Giasi said is for a more satisfying retribution.
actually i think it would be wiser to say that capital punishment isn't necessarily effective in all societies. In societies where there's a higher prevalence of violent crimes it might be naive not to enfore capital punishment. On the other hand in more "peaceful" societies other forms of punishment would suffice..
Nor would I. Plus you have the multiple switches thing so no one actually knows who turned it on.
I would have no regrets or pains to my conscience flicking the switch. Im sure that there would be a queue of people willing to do it.
I think its fitting retribution for particularly cold blooded crimes.
Crimes of passion (the majority of murders), when emotion takes over and all logic escapes someone, should be excluded
The murderer has obviously chosen to ignore the basic philosophy, but does that give the rest of us the right to ignore it. When it comes down to it, someone is going to have to kill the murderer. Be it the judge who condemns him to death, the guard who flicks the switch or the firing squad. What right do we have to say that those people should have to live with death on their conscience.
Fish... muslim judicial systems do tend to look at capital crimes as "cancers" and execution as treatment for the benefit of society.
I agree that, in general, noone has a right to take life but hasnt a murderer given up the right to be protected by this philosophy? I agree with Super that judicial systems in many countries are not conducive to "getting the right man" but i am making the assumption that we do indeed have the "right man".
funny thing though..in muslim cultures the death sentence is not seen as just punishment, but also as repentance for the crime the offender's commited.
Well on the castration thing Super I was thinking about repeat offenders, not really Date rape, more the violent rapists and pedophiles. Especially pedophiles.
I completely agree with DG on this one.
I'm against capital punishment. Life is not yours or anyone else to take. If I hated someone that much I would much rather see them wishing for death to put an end to their misery.
It would be satisfying I suppose if you were related to a victim but the trouble is that the legal system is fallible and putting someone to death is permanent.
Also DG I think castration is a tough one because unfortunately some women do bullshit about rape and castration is a little permanent too.
I dont think that the death penalty has much of a deterrent effect, but i do believe that the retributive value is high. Thats, i think, why its still done.
No he shouldn't be put to death. That's the easy way out. When your dead you can't be raped by your inmates or having boiling water poured over you or get the crap kicked out of you in the shower anymore.
Lets say for example that someone near and dear to you was taken by someone, tortured for sadistic pleasure and then subjected to a slow, lingering and painful end. The murderer on being caught, shows no remorse and no signs of mental incapacity. Would you feel differently? Should he be allowed to live?
I personally don't agree with capital punishment. I don't believe that anyone has the right to take anyone's life, regardless of circumstances.
That being said I think rapists and pedophiles should be castarated.