"Muslim medical students get picky". Isn't this now all getting a bit out of hand?

jauntie
By jauntie

Some Muslim medical students are refusing to attend lectures or answer exam questions on alcohol-related or sexually transmitted diseases because they claim it offends their religious beliefs.

Some trainee doctors say learning to treat the diseases conflicts with their faith, which states that Muslims should not drink alcohol and rejects sexual promiscuity.

A small number of Muslim medical students have even refused to treat patients of the opposite sex. One male student was prepared to fail his final exams rather than carry out a basic examination of a female patient.

The religious objections by students have been confirmed by the British Medical Association (BMA) and General Medical Council (GMC), which both stressed that they did not approve of such actions.

It will intensify the debate sparked last week by the disclosure that Sainsbury’s is permitting Muslim checkout operators to refuse to handle customers’ alcohol purchases on religious grounds. It means other members of staff have to be called over to scan in wine and beer for them at the till.

Critics, including many Islamic scholars, see the concessions as a step too far, and say Muslims are reneging on their professional responsibilities.

This weekend, however, it emerged that Sainsbury’s is also allowing its Muslim pharmacists to refuse to sell the morning-after pill to customers. At a Sainsbury’s store in Nottingham, a pharmacist named Ahmed declined to provide the pill to a female reporter posing as a customer. A colleague explained to her that Ahmed did not sell the pill for “ethical reasons”. Boots also permits pharmacists to refuse to sell the pill on ethical grounds.

The BMA said it had received reports of Muslim students who did not want to learn anything about alcohol or the effects of overconsumption. “They are so opposed to the consumption of it they don’t want to learn anything about it,” said a spokesman.

The GMC said it had received requests for guidance over whether students could “omit parts of the medical curriculum and yet still be allowed to graduate”. Professor Peter Rubin, chairman of the GMC’s education committee, said: “Examples have included a refusal to see patients who are affected by diseases caused by alcohol or sexual activity, or a refusal to examine patients of a particular gender.”

He added that “prejudicing treatment on the grounds of patients’ gender or their responsibility for their condition would run counter to the most basic principles of ethical medical practice”.

Shazia Ovaisi, a GP in north London, said one of her male Muslim contemporaries at medical school failed to complete his training because he refused to examine a woman patient as part of his final exams.

“He was academically gifted, one of the best students, but gradually he got in with certain Islamic groups and started to become more radical,” said Ovaisi.

“You could see there was a change in his personality as time went by. During the final exams he was supposed to treat a female patient in hospital. He refused to do it, even though it would have been a very basic examination, nothing intrusive.

“But he refused and as a result he failed his exams. I was quite shocked and disappointed about it because I don’t see there being anything in our religion that prohibits us from examining male and female patients.”

Both the Muslim Council of Britain and Muslim Doctors and Dentist Association said they were aware of students opting out but did not support them.

Dr Abdul Majid Katme, of the Islamic Medical Association, said: “To learn about alcohol, to learn about sexually transmitted disease, to learn about abortion, it gives us more evidence to campaign against it. There is a difference between learning and practising.

“It is obligatory for Muslim doctors and students to learn about everything. The prophet said, ‘Learn about witchcraft, but don’t practise it’.”

Related Links
Fear of offending is killing our culture

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article2603966.ece

By anonymous• 14 years 7 months ago.
anonymous

Is good to weed and sort out the bad seeds of the medical profession,

I'll bet you they will hold hands as they walk the hall ways of the hospital. Is good that their high glass ceilings came crashing hard over there heads.

Don't tell me, it was the will of Allah when they failed their final medical test?

There is a difference between learning and practicing and there is a BIG difference when following ideologicaL stupidity and sacrificing your CAREER and future.

Don't worry, they will realized ten years from know, What a bad choice they made for themselves! They will be drinking and smoking something better to alleviate their headaches.

I called that, extremist and fanatical decisions.

The Red Pope of Qatar Living

By anonymous• 14 years 7 months ago.
anonymous

mr.paul iz dis da 14000QR lost dog u hav wid u?

dey say wite dog wid blak spot

[img_assist|nid=64234|title=|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]

By Vegas• 14 years 7 months ago.
Vegas

Well,if you want a white boy like me to defend and protect you...

You should stand up and unite...

And yes there are a bunch of non muslims protecting your right of religion...

That's what makes where I come from so special...

Yeah we have our a holes too...

But for the most part...

I think we all respect each others religion...

We do have an extreme right though...Sorry bout that...

And the extreme left...sorry bout that too...

OK I shut up now...

Smile

You can't teach experience...

By anonymous• 14 years 7 months ago.
anonymous

" It is our country, if you dont like our rules..Then leave "

[img_assist|nid=59198|title=.|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]

By Cornellian• 14 years 10 months ago.
Cornellian

How can I chill when I feel so strongly about the topic ? It's really stupid and ridiculous! Is this what those students are learning from Islam ? They really are being misguided and are getting the wrong message. It's quite sad cause they have so much potential like male student who failed and yet it's being wasted because of some stupid extremist ideology.

By Hussamf• 14 years 10 months ago.
Hussamf

this is absolutely absurd and redicilous, and has absolutely no base whatsoever in the religion itself...

i agree that this is getting out of hand, and these extermist minoroties who taint the image of islam should be dealt with with extreme firmness..

http://hasous.spaces.live.com

"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat

By Booo• 14 years 10 months ago.
Booo

omg!! corne...chill! :P

By Booo• 14 years 10 months ago.
Booo

A person who chooses medicine as their career paths is expected to understand that they would be exposed to things that they personally would disagree with, but as part of their profession shouldn't let that get in the way of treating the patient, its even mentioned in the Hippocratic oath, the one doctors take once they graduate med school.

So as a Muslim medical student i wouldn't mind studying about sexually transmitted diseases or the effects of alcohol as long as its for the benefit of my patient, after all the prophet did say 'if you take on a job, do it to the fullest'.

By Cornellian• 14 years 10 months ago.
Cornellian

That's just insane. Med students like that should be failed and not allowed to practice. It goes against every rule in the book, doctors are supposed to help patients regardless of the disease or cause of disease.

As for Cornell, minor correction namabiru: The premed is accelerated from 4 years to 2 years,that's because they cut out the electives such as arts, etc and are concentrating on only the science stuff. However, the med school however is identical to the one in NY and has 4 years just like NY.

As for would this be allowed in Cornell ? Hell no! Abayas aren't even allowed in lab for safety precautions. I've never heard of a single student objecting to anything based on religious grounds. That's because there are no religious grounds! It's just crazy fanatic extremists looking for a way to yet again sabbotage muslim relations with the outside world. I mean having muslim med students is a step in the right direction...but nooooo...those extremists had to ruin it for us! Arghhh...

Terrorism even in medicine! Unbelievable!

By adey• 14 years 10 months ago.
adey

being imposed on others.

Nuff said

I don't go to mythical places with strange men.

-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.

By jauntie• 14 years 10 months ago.
jauntie

It's not so many decades ago that my Irish Catholic GP refused to prescribe the Pill to me (I had been taking it for years for reasons other than contraception!). He told me to go off and have children!!! I wasn't even married lmao I had to go to the clinic at the local Hospital in the end.

I'm also reminded of the Jewish firm of solicitors I worked with. Only one of the Jewish partners wore a skull cap and word had it that, had he been interviewed by Jewish partners in the firm, he would NEVER have been given permission to wear it at work!

Funny old life, isn't it. I found some kosher dill pickles in a supermarket here the other day; wandered about with a smile on my face for the rest of my shopping trip. :D

By Mis-Cat• 14 years 10 months ago.
Mis-Cat

i do understand the point you are trying to make also I do agree that PC has gone to far and I also know that alot of people abuse this fact. I also agree people have a choice and alot of people disregard this choice and choose to go for the easy kill: i.e people who still smoke regardless of all the amount of info regarding the damage it can do to your health then turn around and sue the tabacco company for millions when they have cancer. I dont agree with with people who use religion as an excuse to get out of things thats why i made my suggestion what i have suggest seems to me a logical tatic for sainsbury thats all they kill two birds with one stone so to speak. As far as medical students hiding behind religion to skiv of from certain subjects and get out of performing certain duties i think they should fail, and on the point of muslims not selling the pill in pharmacies well all i have to say on that has anyone tried buying the pill in a south american country the christians are just as bad.

By jauntie• 14 years 10 months ago.
jauntie

I did understand what you were saying - didn't mean to sound like I was blasting off at you :D

However, underage is one thing. Underage is something everyone is at some time or other and can't be avoided.

A Muslim doesn't have to work in Sainsbury's and Sainsbury's shouldn't have pandered to them. There has been a lot of ridiculous things done in the name of Political Correctness over the past few years and I think it's really gone too far now. Our own culture is being steamrollered over by the minority groups.

The other link I posted at the start of this thread goes on to say (re the Sainsbury's incident):

" ....The point about this story is not the absurd demand, but that Sainsbury’s gave into it, quite unnecessarily, of its own free will.

It wasn’t even being pressed to do so by any prominent Muslim figures. Ghayasuddin Siddiqui, leader of the Muslim Parliament, said last week: “This is some kind of overenthusiasm. One expects professional behaviour from people working in a professional capacity and this shows a lack of maturity. The fault lies with the employee who is exploiting and misusing their goodwill.”

By Mis-Cat• 14 years 10 months ago.
Mis-Cat

I did actually also comment on the sale of tabbbacco products and alcohol at sainsbury by minors it is common law ( in the U.K, U.S.A.(were some states the legal age for alcohol is 21) Aus, Ect) that nobody under the age of 18 sell or purchase these products, sainsbury already requires that anbody underage were the customer wishes to purchase said items call in a cashier of the legal age to complete the transaction i mearly stated if this is already the case would it not be simplier to have check outs for the non sale of these items as to make it easier on both the customer and the cashier this allowing for muslims who do not wish to handle the sale of alcohol as well.

By ooo• 14 years 10 months ago.
ooo

very well put Jauntie!!!

By jauntie• 14 years 10 months ago.
jauntie

I can't buy a drink here cos it's Ramadan - am I making a fuss? No. I go along with this country's traditions.

So I don't expect some fundamentalist little twerp to make a fuss in MY country, when all they have to do is work in an environment that DOES suit them. I expect them to toe the line with MY traditions.

By jauntie• 14 years 10 months ago.
jauntie

on making a stand. Hijabettes :o) (Their sisters here in a true Islamic environment wouldn't behave that way)

Like the article says Both the Muslim Council of Britain and Muslim Doctors and Dentist Association said they were aware of students opting out but did not support them"

(and same with the Sainsbury's fiasco)

By Mis-Cat• 14 years 10 months ago.
Mis-Cat

while I have to admit that muslims have a right not to sell alcohol (maybe sainsbury's should have non purchase of alcohol and tabbacco products lines clearly marked this allowing muslims and underage cashiers to do their job without the inconveniance to customers who have to wait while some one steps in to do it for them) I fell that someone wanting to work in any area of the medicine should be prepared to deal with these topics. STD's and alcohol are big issues no matter what contry you work and live in.

By dweller• 14 years 10 months ago.
dweller

answer is to kick them out. You do the job or you don't........end of story!

By ooo• 14 years 10 months ago.
ooo

Yeah and of course they don't treat homosexual, single moms, drug addicts, alcoholics, adulterous individuals, women and trans in mini skirts … got to love PC!

By namabiru• 14 years 10 months ago.
namabiru

Yeah, that's what I'm wondering. Then again, in the case of Cornell, the curriculum is identical to that followed in New York, with the exception that it's on an accelerated scale (4 years of med. school, not 6, so zero to doctor in 6 years with adding 2 years of pre.med). However, the school timetable is not identical to that of New York's, where we take Muslim holidays in addition to some American holidays. Also, other concessions such as having distinct written rules for the abeya in the lab (you can wear a surgical mask in lieu of covering your face, for instance) are made.

By jauntie• 14 years 10 months ago.
jauntie

She teaches at our local College. They is a very large Muslim community in the County where I live in UK - largest in England I believe.

Anyway, I asked her if there had been any probs at her college. She said no. Apart from one person, who is learning Koran and studying for a National Diploma AND working at a supermarket. He, or she, is talking of dropping the Nat Dip to make room for more Koran studies.

Hmmmm

By t_coffee_or_me• 14 years 10 months ago.
t_coffee_or_me

Would these same students if they were studying in Muslim countries like gulf, Egypt etc etc done the same

If you can't change your fate, change your attitude.

By namabiru• 14 years 10 months ago.
namabiru

I dunno, actually. Probably not. Ivy leaguers have a sense of humor, but we take our STDs seriously you know.

By jauntie• 14 years 10 months ago.
jauntie

I wonder?

I doubt it somehow ... The powers that be wouldn't stand for it - it's just too ridiculous.

By jauntie• 14 years 10 months ago.
jauntie

I don't think Sainsbury's should have caved in, either.

Neither cases (Sainsbury's or this) have been condoned by the head Muslim honchos in UK, so what's going on?

By namabiru• 14 years 10 months ago.
namabiru

Huh. I wonder what's happening at Cornell with all this. I'll have to investigate more.

ETA-- Oh yeah, and you'd have to have your head completely stuffed up a certain orifice to think that Muslim people don't suffer from STDs and other miscellaneous viruses of ill reputation. After all, if Muslim people aren't contracting these things, nor doing the things which would cause them to contract them, then why does Carrefour have a Walmart-sized family planning section? Or the Boots chemist? Surely those things aren't put there just simply for the benefit of the large non-Muslims.

By Oryx• 14 years 10 months ago.
Oryx

i think the students need to find a more appropriate medical school.

and they are in denial if they think that not one muslim suffers from STDs or alcohol problems. in fact at the footie now they have big videos playing at half time educating about heroin abuse.

i think muslims can suffer more because of the taboo. doctors are meant to heal so these students should study these topics. selfish little prats - should put their patients needs first.

By Gypsy• 14 years 10 months ago.
Gypsy

Well, at least they're failing them.

"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco

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