Are you being paid enough, or are you working for peanuts?
i was just thinking about the wide range of salaries for essentially very similar jobs. Why does a western expat get paid several times the salary of his indian peer? is this just racism or pure economics? Are non-white expats inferior to their white counterparts? does a non white western expat get the same treatment to a white western expat? What about other nationalities?
i would be interested to hear peoples experiences.
these posters r grown more older... :)
some of them left the ground... :(
This must be a record. A response to a post almost 4 years old.
we should all accept that injustices are evident, regardless how we try to eradicate. they could be minimised, thou. we cannot have the so-called leveled playing field. after all, we will return to infamous/famous dust origin.
Could you also assist me with the issue of cost of living in Doha? My email is firstname.lastname@example.org
I am rosman from Malaysia and am considering to work in Qatar.. I want to know what is GIA and whether it is only for Westerner expatriate.
The salary, allowances are basicly within the ranges between G14 and G15 except GIA.
Hope you all contact me at email@example.com
Its a list of companies which are working in new and emerging technologies including bio-tech and nano-technology with successful and profitable business models...
Sorry did you just send a link saying that india is a good destination for outsourcing?
No need I think we all agree with that.
Without getting what is being said on this thread..Following is a list of Asia's Most innovative companies (mainly in technology)..This list includes Australia which is a Western country according to Gulf Standards...(the link is picked from a fellow Qatar blogger)
By the way check the seminar organizer in HK to convince yourselves that its a fair assessment..
I KNOW..the supermacists will jump with their own set of jaded arguments...but I am patient...it will take time..but truth will be known....
anomad clearly if all companies will save money whenever they can then the companies must consider it worth their money to pay the extra for western staff?
Western staff cost more simple as that (because they need enough to live on at home) now if they weren't worth it would the companies still pay it? I don't think so.
West Vs East Salary Disparity:
In a competitive job market selection is based on technical qualifications as assessed by the employers and the financial bid by the employee. If similarly qualified people are available at cheaper cost then no sensible management will go for a higher cost hire just because the higher cost group has big expenditure at their home countries and balah blah...Socialism failed because the salary was need based on family budget rather than market driven.
Second argument that western education is costly and standard great is highly subjective. Just because western universities are high cost insitutions, the employers are not obliged to hire western graduate at a premium. East vs west - Quality of education is debatable. In most jobs we apply little of what we studied in the educational institutions. Application of technical and managerial skills is not purely based on academic merit. Graduates from East are performing extremely well in west and more so in the USA.We are in a dynamic era where things change fast and race also highly competitive.
Just my thoughts.
Could you also assist me with the issue of cost of living in Doha? My email is firstname.lastname@example.org
You need to understand that all people from the "West" are not white!!
Canada is for the first time in recent years looking at bringing in "Contract" workers from around the world, including emerging nations. Taking front stage is how Canada will deal with the aspects of wages. One of the many areas for concern is that these workers will not be paid the same as those that are from Canada and given current Canadian Law this has the potential of becoming a "Union" Labour nightmare. Canada is looking to pre-entry agreements that are very clear as to wages, length of stay in country and a "NO" possibility of permanent Resident / Citizen Application. These are not meant to be discriminatory in any way. They are being created to respond to the realities of the world and good business sense. The proposed structure is based on offering salaries inline with home country salaries and a significant premium for working away from home. The same aspects that get many of us to take overseas contracts.
With respect to the living costs, this becomes a very involved issue as living costs in many of the area's that these workers are required, can be very similar to Doha. The obvious thing to do is provide for labour camps, the same as is being done here. In many cases in Canada these labour camps are already in use for Canadians. In the areas that they are not available you are left with the same decisions as you are faced with here, you either accept the job or don't. If you feel that a company is not offering enough to cover your costs then you simply don't take the job.
To add one last thought, if you have done your research properly and you are not being placed into a Labour Camp then you can make company provided housing, utilities, etc. a pre-condition to accepting any work here, as I did, and if they are not willing to accept this then don't take the job. When I negotiated for the position that I took I made several demands including being flown here prior to accepting the job, included housing, all vehicle costs and many other aspects to be provided. Initially the company said no, I said thank you and good luck on your employee search and went on my way. They came back and agreed to all conditions.
Ultimately it is up to the individual to do his research and negotiate the best deal that they can for themselves and live with what they accept.
I note that people are calling the QP furnishing payment an "allowance".
Unless things have changed drastically, the furnishing payment is a "loan". I belive that you work off the loan which depreciates at 25% per annum. Thus, if you stay 4 years, you owe nothing and the furniture is yours to do with what you want. They used to pay a furniture maintenance grant of QR5,000 per annum (payable in December)from the 5th anniversary of recruitment. Is that still the case?
eaton it all depends on the country ur from too .. although many of the costs would be the same some are not also ... e.g. saving 2/3 thousand riyal to us may not seem significant but to others that is a months salary or more ... but u could be right there is not enough info ... is this significantly more than what ur getting bak home jupiter?
Bottom line, you shouldn't, it isn't enough to survive in Qatar.
Dear Moonbeam and all:
I am a newbie here. Im intervieweing with QP and their HR offers the following (subject to be confirmed):
Basic: QR 11,000
Location allowance: QR 670 (this post is in Messaieed)
Housing allowance: QR 6,500 + QR 3,468 (as an adjustment)
Transportation allowance: QR 2,200
Furniture allowance: QR 45,000
The HR told me that I can get a 2BR villa with the housing allowance. Is it true? Can I get a 2BR fully furnished housing with QR 8,000?
For a married couple with a 2.5 year old daughter:
1. What life can I expect with the offerred package
2. How much is the monthly living cost the so I can estimate net saving to be made.
I would be grateful if anyone can explain in detail. Here is my email address: email@example.com
I guess the topic was nice but got down into personal diatrabes..All the people in Qatar know what facts are...
White people are equally frustrated, quail, now ..that oil companies and most govt. organizations have stopped discriminating on nationalities..and the differences now are mainly on western inducements and even they are nominal..so you can hear daily stories of western expats leaving...
Asian Expats cover a wide range from Labourers to Highly paid specialists..and if they are happy with their lives..so be it..there is no point grousing about what the western guy/gal gets and why??
World is changing and getting competitive..Many western people are loosing their jobs and life styles..take the case of wine makers in france...France is an early indicator of things to come..The earlier days of white is right are gone..employers are focused on skill and actually delievery rather than prejudices...
Point is..Who ever feels he is right in staying in Qatar and is able to save..and it makes a difference to his life..will stay..
There is no reason to play great games of changing the world..after all a RSA Expat can never dream of getting what an American gets at Saudi Aramco...
Quail obviously is very frustrated. Instead of beating him on the head i would rather like to hear his story. Let him rage. I think there are a lot of people on this forum who apparantly can not really put their feet in his shoes. Maybe you did not start at the bottom like he did. Maybe he did not get the chances in life that most of us, like me also, got. I can understand that if you are at the good end of the stick you can easily step over his grievances. However, if you have the short end of the stick, life seems so different all of a sudden. If you are a westerner and you make 20k you say, well i earn it, if you are a non westerner and you make 2k life is different. Before you trash this quy, give him a break.
Sheesh... calm down quail... youll burst a blood vessel. Why you so angry?
As far as i can see, noone insulted you so theres no need to get so abrasive.
Oh please not the holier than thou routine.
first off, dont tell me what to do.
second Im not some inexperienced boy who just lumps all white people together just because he can. I do that because of years of experience.
dialouge, prayer? this shows that you live in a world of your own, do you actually think those things work? only people who believe that those things work are those who get everything handed to them, not someone who has to snatch his piece.
And the last thing I need is some clueless white girl wishing me luck. you dont make it from the bottom with luck.
thaks for the info, I have not received the offer yet. I had an interview and they said their HR will send it soon. based on your experinece how much do you think that they would offer me based on the following;
PHD, +6 years experienec in canada, family one child, and canadian
thatk for the info, I have not received the offer yet. I had and interview and they said their HR will send it soon. based on experinece how much do you think that they would offer me based on the following
PHD, +6 years experienec in canada, family one child, and canadian
Dream on anayeb. Unless things have changed very considerably QP only review salary scales when they have to.
These reviews are normally years apart.
Moonbeam, please send me the infor to firstname.lastname@example.org
as I said I am getting an offer from QP so I do not know if they adjusted the salaries based on recent inflation. Also would apprecite any information about the relocation process.
Quail, with your word you have just catergorised yourself.
1. If you are not a qatari, then don't insult this great nation by adjusting your profile to make people think that you are.
2. Your apparent lack of communication skills really do reveal your age. When you have grown up a bit and have a family of your own to worry about; then maybe you will look at things a little differently and have a little more forethought before lumping 'all' white people together.
You know nothing about me, my past, my beliefs, and you made a grave mistake saying I am a typical white girl. First I am not a girl, but a mother that prays everyday that children stop suffering all over the world, paying the price for human ignorance.
I pity that you don't see the good that can be done by promoting dialogue.
Good luck in your life.
Get over it people, you knew what you would be getting as a salary when you decided to come to Qatar. If it is not enough, go home.
If no-body would work for the pay, it would get raised, but as long as people from whatever part of the world will work for a certain amount of QR, that is the fair amount for the job.
Any employee wants the most money for the least amount of work, while all employers want the most amount of work from an employee for the least money. This is only a welfare state for the Qataries, rest of the Expats have to work for what business will pay.
First off Im not a qatari.
Dont catergorise? Im saying that white people get better treatment here, they get better treatment anywhere in the world. Its a fact of life.
Anyone doubting this must be the biggest dumbass in the world.
People on the short end of the stick should stop expecting to be treated the same as a white man. You never will be. Not in this country, not in their country, not even in your own country. If there is a white man beside you, he WILL be treated better in everyway.
Stop complaining because nobody cares. Doesnt matter how much you bitch and moan about it nothing good will happen to you. Ever. You WILL be used and kicked out. and after you your kids will suffer the same treatment.
And another thing, stay away from white folk as you must have realised from the comments here. theyre nothing but trouble.
People on the other side should stop trying to help or "promote a discussion". Youre not the next Martin Luther King or Abraham Lincoln.
you cant change the world. Youll just cause a few more brown people to be fired by your company to support your salary.
As for moonbeam, Im not blaming the white folk for bettering their own life. Im just telling a fact. you are a typical white girl by the way, thinking you know everything about everyone.
Check out my recent one...
Breech of Trust
After a series of compensation problems, I think we're probably going to ditch Qatar for good.
Somehow, i dont think quail is a qatari. The obvious venom in his tone would lead me to believe he himself suffers from this inequality.
Quail. I do indeed realise the situation. if you had bothered to read all my posts you would indeed realise that my initial post was there to promote a discussion on the subject, which, im glad to say, it did.
Dervish, i read your post. I totally agree
You could mail me at email@example.com. I appreciate this. Especially any travel costs you know about (as I understand the Uni is not in the town centre) Thanks very much.
Anayeb, Lachalla; I can send you a breakdown of general hypothetical costs, but you need to post your e-mail addresses.
I've lived in the middle east my whole life, so maybe it'll help to give you a clearer picture. Qatar is a booming economy, and as a result inflation are driving prices higher, not to mention that landlords have hiked up prices; so you need to make sure that your company has adjusted your package to include for this; otherwise eventually you'll find yourself in the same situation as other expats who have had to return home, because it was no longer profitable for them to live abroad.
Quail, as a self professed slacker, please tone down. Most on this site are older than you, and I can assure you, 'know what the real world" is all about.
Try not to sound so accusing. As a Qatari, you more than anyone should understand that if your country is to expand and improve it's infrastructure it needs to invite investment.
Don't blame 'white' people for trying to better their own lives. Who owns the houses that they rent? Who's getting 200% more than what they used to charge 2 years ago.
In the end who do you think profits?
yes.....buddy............. YOU! So don't catergorise and generalise.
I wrote about this issue in my blog a while back. The piece is fairly long, so I'll just link it here...
Life in Exile
No shit sherlock, white people get better treatment here.
Either you are really young or white yourself to be in doubt of that.
There are 5 families living in a single 2,000riyal flat with two bedrooms while white people get 20,000 riyal 4 bedroom houses so that all their kids have a seperate room.
Welcome to the real world.
Thanks, I would like a break down - I'll send you my e mail. I actually get a villa (not an allowance) and health care and some small amount for travel (I thinks it's 150SR per month although I've no idea what we can do with that). We don't leave till August but at the moment the plan is for my husband to come out and try to find work when we're here (although he has been manically applying online since I got the offer!). I think my only real worry is that I don't drive and people keep complaining about taxis. Is it expensive to get a driver?
Thanks again for replying, I'm quite new to this!
any information that you can give me for post#3822
It's not so much what you get as a basic salary that counts whilst you are in qatar. The important thing is that your net slary doesn't get dipped into that much. A good package consists of housing (fully paid......not an allowance, as rising rents will force you to dip into your own money eventually), and health insurance and schooling costs if you have kids. Bonuses are Transport (car or allowance) and extras like paid tickets for family and annual leave 30 - 45 days a year.
If you are single or coming as a family makes for the biggest difference. Look at how much you save in your current situation and compare to what you can save in qatar, and viola' you have your answer. Then it's just up to you to decide. If you really want a breakdown send me your e-mail address, I'll write what I know.
I have a PhD and professional qual with about 7 years lecturing experience (and a fair no. of publications). Qatar Uni have just offered me 17000 QR per month plus a villa and health care. Not sure if that's okay, but at least it gives you something for comparison,
I am a Canadian professional (PHD and US related professional certification). I have +6 years of experience in Canada and I was just interviewed over the phone by QP. I was told that soon they are going to send me a package. I guess it means their offer. While I am waiting for this package, I would like to get some sense of what range of salary I should expect and if I can negotiate. How long it take from this date until I am relocated? Do they pay for relocation furniture car etc? Any advise or information about QP relocation procedure will be much appreciated.
Me? insult you butterfly? i would rather have my eyeballs removed with a rusty garden implement and roasted over an open fire than insult you :)
Well I know something... You are not british originally, cos once you said something to me in your "Native putingus?" (I think you were insulting me) :(
I just don't know where that language is from :(
Trust super7 to see through my clever disguise. Welcome back super.
Of course! I never picked that up!
Butterfly, the answer to your question is ...... si. :)
HAHAHAHAH! DUH!!!! Silly me!
Sorry moon and butterfly are you joking????
With all the analysis you have been doing of his writing moonbrain I thought you would have picked that up.
Giasi is our Qatarliving mistery man! There's an investigation about him, but so far no clues...
It sounds italian, doesn't it?
Giasi, well said; I wouldn't have been able to put it better myself.
Now you've peaked my curiosity.............. "Giasi" doen't sound like a typical brit name. So okay, we've established that you are from the UK...... so where is your name from???? :)
For what its worth moonbeam, i am english i just phrased that sentence that way so it looked impartial.
It is true that exploitation is rife but workers themselves are as much to blame. Salaries will follow the supply and demand rule. companies will pay what people will accept and what people will accept is proportional to what they expect and what they expect is related to what they can earn in their home countries.
However, desperation shouldnt be used as a tool by employers to exploit people. Unfortunately, human nature tends towards greed and thats why government legislation (and its application) is the only way to deal with these issues.
In fact, salaries is only the tip of the iceberg. Working conditions is another aspect which i feel is more important. alot of uneccessary deaths occur because of this.
For the ladies that were assaulted, i agree its a very humiliating experience. and as moonbeam said, ignorance is everywhere.
It's terrible right. So humiliating! If I had been in my own country I would have flattened her to the floor then pressed charges. But what can you do? Nada!
Oh well, life goes on huh?
Blacklion, good post.
At the end of the day, one thing that I am thankful for is that I will always have rights in my own country of origin; and should the need arise, I can always return.
It's a slow process to improve human rights records, and greed always plays a big role. I for one saw too many expats lose everything (in the UAE) because they thought their rights would be protected as expats. Not so. Play smart, guard yourself and don't become complacent in your "comfortable life" and you can live very well as an expat.
I believe the main reason for the exploitation of any expatriate in this country is the labour law and above all the human right issue. i would like all of you to read this link and comment on it. Its The Human right report from The Department of State.
20,000 Qrs is fine provoiding your company pay your housing. Giving you an allowance (considering the constantly rising prices) will cover you for about a year, and then you will be up &^&$ creek without a paddle. :)
hehehe, that's funny, I got also hit once by an old lady here.
Not too sure about the reason, as I cannot understand arabic and the lady was screaming at my in that language.
I just left the shop feeling humilliated.
Because you specifically mentioned â€œwhy does he get more than his Indian peerâ€? would indicate that you are of Asian origin.
Absolutely! It does not make a difference. Cyberspace can be a little ambiguous at times, and things can be read into.
Yes. Most expats get what they â€œshouldâ€? be receiving back home. The difference is that abroad they also have to pay X times as much for schools, medical care and yes you are right in saying that a lot of things are more expensive.
Again yes, they are disproportionate. Itâ€™s very easy to generalize why this happens, but itâ€™s not fair to do so. If I were face to face with you, I would tell you my honest feelings; but in a forum itâ€™s very easy to get misunderstood. So Iâ€™ll leave it at that.
That is why Western expats try and cover all bases prior to relocating or accepting a job abroad. They also have the added advantage of not being desperate; which is one very good motive that has driven market salaries of say, Indian expats coming from poor if not desperate conditions (laborers for example). Again I am generalizing; as there are many highly qualified, and highly paid non-western expats.
I have been an expat my entire life. 32 years opens you eyes to a lot of things, and I can bore you silly with stories believe me.
Every country to some extend has these problems. One can only hope that as a country grows and matures, so will the attitudes of its people. An example; Itâ€™s funny that Indians feel discriminated against in the middle east, and yet in their home country there is a strict caste system, and racism is strife also. And itâ€™s not just Asians. I for one can vouch to that. Once I was standing in the ladies queue in a bank, and an older Arabic lady was behind me. I was dressed very decently, skirt to the floor, long sleeves, hair tied back; and yet this woman started screaming and shouting (in Arabic) that I was an infidel westerner, who drank alcohol (impossible as I was 2 months pregnant at the time); all because she wanted to go in front of me. Well it ended up with her slapping me across the face (howâ€™s that for violent), without provocation I might add, and her subsequently getting kicked out of the bank by security. I felt violated and embarrassed. But did that change my opinion of the Arab world, no.
Ignorance is everywhere; but that does not mean that everyone is ignorant.
Also with Respect.
I cannot believe there is anyone that has not seen right thru' the human rights issues of Qatar- to say the least there are NONE!
Maybe that is my most discomfort about the country.
By the time we get to salaries- I'm beat.
I came over to WORK and TRAVEL- thank God I had no illusion of making mountains of money (it would be nice of course).
It is not going to happen, so I am planning on staying just long enough to get what I came for.
First off... moonbeam, how does my second sentence show im not from the UK? im intrigued. It really doesnt matter where im from, makes no difference to the validity of what i say anyway.
its nice to think that every expat here is earning X times the salary that they would be earning at home, however, this does not mean anything when the cost of living here is X times more than your home country.
I agree that market forces will be the decisive factor and that some differences will be there depending on home country salaries, but i still believe that the gaps that exist are disproportionate.
Noone should be forced to repatriate their families because they can no longer afford to support them here whilst some counterparts have disposable income to live affluently.
noone can deny that injustice occurs here. you would have to be blind not to see it. injustice based on ethnicity is rife and has much deeper roots than we realise.
the gulf is a very racist society (much more than the UK for example). The fact that it doesnt manifest itself in abuse and violence doesnt mean it doesnt exist. It can be seen in government departments, supermarkets, on the road etc etc. Dont you think that this also has an effect in the workplace? how people are treated when it comes to salaries, promotions etc.
What do you consider 20,000 QR for an expat . is it a low end salary range. Keep in mind it is inclusive of everything. Coming from North America, it seems almost equal to what I am making here . So why do you think I should move.
I have two question for all of you here,
1st even based on the analysis given about the living standard and the cost of education in the west and in the developing country, I still don't believe expatriate from the developing world are not being paid enough based on the living expenses in Qatar. I have seen a study by QNB few months ago the average salary in Qatar is Qrs 2,900. Do you think this can cover the living expenses of people residing in this country? the same study shows a minimum salary for a single expact in Doha must be somewhat like Qrs. 8,400.00 to survive in Qatar. So based on this even considering the things you have mentioned I still say many people especially from the developing country are being exploited.
2. I am sure there are many expatriates from the developing world living in the west, and they are not being discriminated on the basis of their passport, so I can say your analysis can not justify the point.
In my opinion, for 'most cases':
** You will be offered a base salary equal or equivalent to what you could have earned in your own country of origin **
The difference is supposed to be a tax advantage if you can sort out your fiscal status with your own country.
A person from one continent, will not be offered salary based on the standard of living of another continent.
The bottom line is: your 'Gross Income' will be about the same as in your country of origin.
The reasoning is simple: if Qatari companies could find all their labour needs within Asian countries, then they wouldn't initiate hiring campaigns in the West.
If western Expats were offered 'Asian' level salaries, then they would just stay home.
I am glad that you said ideally Butterfly. The salaries were not set on the basis of passport but on other criteria.
You mentioned yourself skills and experience. In addition education is only useful if the knowledge gained is actually required to perform the job.
With all my respects, it sounds as if westerners feel threaten by the high skilled work force that is emerging in certain â€“less developed- areas.
Ideally, salaries should be based on skills, education and experience, not on nationalities or races. Giving a person a lower â€“or higher- salary because of a passport sets the bases for discrimination.
Agreed Moonbeam. I was heavily involved in C&B in Qatar and this issue gave me all sorts of problems.
All staff were on the same unified salary scales which meant that some staff from the East were earning approximately 10 times what they could earn in their base country whilst Western staff were earning approximately the same as they could earn in their base country.
First off let me say that you point is a very valid one. However judging by your second sentance I have a great deal of difficulty believing that your country of origin (origin.....) is in fact the UK.
Rascism is not to blame, but rather prejudice. Actually, many 'western' expats would actually agree with your principle, because as a western expat myself, I have been denied a job in the past because someone willing to work for less scooped it up before me. Not nice when you are also desperate.
You have to look at in context. Most 'western' expats work outside of their own countries because they have a finacially more rewrding career.............however, they STILL have to look after their interests at home.......paying mortgages, supporting family etc etc.
With that in mind.........compare the cost of life in India or Sri Lanka with that of the cost of life in the US or the UK or anywhere else in Europe for that matter.
When you sum it up, you'll see that it's actually a problem that has been created by job seekers themselves to the area. Plus the standard of Higher education (university degrees) are generally more valued from the west.
And it has nothing to do with black or white either. ???? The important thing to remember, is that ALL expats are in the same boat remember? We are all guests in a country that we have chosen as a convenience.
I for one would like to see salaries balancing out between races and cultures; if only to be given the same opportunities as the 100 guys waiting in line asking a 1/4 of what I need to survive. Maybe then I'll be offered the job on merit rather than what the company can afford to pay.
So you see, it works both ways. Is it not the westerner that is discriminated against then?
Just my two cents worth.... :)