Ridiculous rules in Aspire Park
I just returned from Europe and already get upset again in lovely Doha-every time a new rule in the Aspire Park,first no bicycling-of course for kids ok, and now no 3/4 shorts for men walking thru the park-why?????We covered knees and shoulders and respect the culture in Doha, but slowly it looks like Qatar wants to make life harder and more unpleasant to expats, we feel quite discriminated-cannot wait for 2022, how they will explain this to all sports people:-)))))))))????
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Because its sport center and just because of wearing Jeans me any my family were prohibited entering the park. Appreciate them, people are allowed to eat, have fun and throw eatables everywhere.
One more thing....Why is it that you GLADLY accept for your employer to dictate what you can or cannot wear to work, with a big smile on ur face and with arms wide open, but can't take the dress code another establishment has put in place???....I know the difference, one is paying u and the other is not, so never mind that it is an establishment not any different that where u work, but oh they don't pay me, so F 'em and their stupid rules and regulation!!!!
I wonder what some of yall would do if they had to live in a country where u had to drive on the opposite side of the road, would u challenge it and say "that's not how we do it back home, where it's so nice and perfect, plus it's my car let me drive it on whatever side I like"???
Dude, a Chinese guy can't move to Iceland and complain about the lack of a "Chinatown"!!!!
Having lived in several countries, in different continents and traveled to over 30 countries, I can honestly say I'm sick and tired of people "assuming" that the European lifestyle is the "norm" or some sort of an ideal balance that everyone should thrive to achieve....It isn't, get over it!!!!
it will be stupid to ban hejab in europe, because you will be against people who dress modestly and coservatively for example sisters in churches,Muslims, jews and others,, however, the issue is not that, the issue of people wearing cloths which are revealing and inapproporiate, it is not accepted in certain places in europe to wear bikini in the market or go to work, and i think it is fully legitimate for countries to put a ban for revealing cloths.
To avoid any wrong messages being spread, let the park authority place some sign broads with new regulation displayed with the basic requirements to enter the park. and as anywhere lets all follow the park rules .
Pointless useless discussions i heard this decision was triggered by some stupid exhibitionist flashing kids and people there..
yes you are right @moza... and I think this is healthy for children to learn and know about other cultures and religions.
Same goes for the teachers who teach them...I guess they prefer westerners, so.
but an accurate one. The culture is changing whether the locals like it or not and it is not the 3/4 trousers, it is the children going to school with expat children and absorbing their ideas and customs to give just one example.
preposterous simplification of a nation's destiny
Freedom comes at a cost.
Kleene, I think you got on the wrong side of some on the wrong day. Yes there will always be people who try to enforce they will on others.
Lets be happy that they still allow us to buy and consume the amber nectar and the haram meat..:)
It is a simple equation, due to the fact of limited number of locals.
1. Reduce dependance on expats and keep the culture similar but accept a reduced standard of living. (and no world events)
2. Accept culture here will change with the influx of expats but that is traded off by our higher standard of living and being able to host high profile events.
Will the locals accept a lower GDP and hence less salary and benefits to preserve their own way of life. (Culture is transient anyway)
Totally agree Mandi.
There's a big difference between pushing back at actual rules (no shorts in Aspire Park) and pushing back at people violating existing rules - the way people drive, the way people treat maids, the way people treat laborers, the way people treat animals etc.
It doesn't come as a surprise to learn that this country isn't exactly encouraging people to get out and be fit and active. Their country, their rules etc.
Yes, very good analogy Britiexpat.
In the end, expat workers (whether high or low end) are 99 per cent here for he money.
Making living environments more likable for expats has risks--upsets some locals maybe and in the end is not what will be the main draw for expats. If green spaces, pools, bikinis and beer is what expats want, there are compounds that cater to that for a premium cost, but IMO most expats would rather live more cheaply and then complain on QL.
Kleene, welcome to Qatar, but you know, you have to pick the ditch you die in. And I'm not sure I'd choose shorts as that ditch. Animal cruelty in the souq, maid abuse, the carnage on the roads all might be worth making a stand. But you are certainly welcome to air your gripes here. Mandi
They do need us. However, for most locals, expats are like mercenaries. Brought over at high cost to provide certain services.
Its a win-win for both parties. Otherwise most, if not all would not be here.
in there minds they dont need us, but the truth is that they should thank us by giving us a LITTLE FREEDOM!!
being paid here in Qatar is not enough cause I work here so to equalized it they should pay me,, and while im working here in Qatar I help the economy grow so to equalize that they should value us by giving us a little freedom, like dubai,
yeah I know Qatar is not a tourist destination but a decent beach or regulation wont hurt their pockets, they are after all the richest nation
You mean, they are too lazy to do it themselves, right?
1935 Britain gains oil exploration concession in the country.
1940 The first oil well in Qatar, Dukhan 1, starts production.
1952 Signing the first agreement to give Shell Company the rights to offshore oil exploration.
Really? They don't need foreign expertise?
what if tomorrow all expat leave Qatar, im sure the country will grow faster and for sure they will win the olympics cup
beside Qatar dont need western technology and knowledge, and they dont need other nations investment.
Qatar is for Qataris only they dont value expats..
do you really think that the very first oil drill here in Qatar was made and planned by a foreigner? of course not,, do you guys think that Qatar cant make that oil drill without the help of foreigners knowledge and technology? of course they can do it by themselve thats why they dont value us expat
Mandi, I agree. Sadly, there are many who invoke the wrath of some and as a consequence we have to suffer.
Really infuriates me!
Hey, guys, go a little easy on Translator. He's playing a bit of a "devil's advocate" here, and I for one appreciate his perspective. My Arabic isn't good enough to read the local press and I like knowing what it's all about. That's the role he's taking. We can make choices but he's giving us more information on how to make these decisions. I really don't want to inadvertently contribute to a "back blow". Life is hard enough in Qatar without provoking more anti-expat laws and rules.
Translator: I don't know why can’t help but notice a leopard moving behind that Alphabet Avatar.
Isn't that what "business" is about, Translator?
Seat belts on please, it looks like we are landing into a conclusion. So this whole whine is about more money by using cultural restriction as a leverage. Nice host and full freedom leads to nothing useful to complain about, which means no more money. Provocative Negotiation utilizing cultural differences.
It's a useless discussion, fubar.
Lincoln: I think it might come as a shock to some to learn that most of us negotiated a HIGHER salary to live in Qatar than in some place like Dubai, to try and compensate for the reduced quality of life.
And I can almost guess your reply: well, we can find hundreds who can do your job. But that's not true. Nobody can do MY job. Somebody else can do HIS job. And if that's what satisfies you, why did you hire me in the first place? Wasn't it like: we would like to have your expertise. We would be glad if you would come here?
So my points still stands. It will cost the state of Qatar more to employ people if their freedoms are controlled. Its not as if they can leave the country after work and go somewhere else is it?
You could change this but Qatarizing all jobs and reduce the needs for any expats, guests or not.
Translator, as a professional I do my job in a suitable environment. If that is not given, I cannot and will not work. The "suitable" environment, by the way, is part of a standard international contract. If the environment is hazardous, you will receive an extra bonus! That means, that, if working in an Islamic country means to adjust your personal environment, then I want an extra bonus for my sufferings. Otherwise I'll choose not to work here. So much for being a "guest"!
No Translator, I wouldn't allow the plumber to move a wall picture. Because a plumber isn't a guest. A plumber is a plumber.
If I invited a 'guest' into my home, and that is the context being used above - we expats are here as 'guests' - then I would allow a guest to make themselves comfortable. That's pretty much the very definition of guest.
Translator, you aren't going to convince me (or possibly others) that you are right, and I am not going to convince you that I am right.
We'll have to agree to disagree.
So would you allow that plumber to move a wall picture from one room to another? absolutely not. Analogy is that the employed expat are such at their contracted locations, not the streets or public parks.
Folks, trust me "guests" (after work, that is) is a highly fair word, from both perspectives. If you don't care about the other perspective, pick the word that you want.
The answer to that question is simple. Employers would have to pay a high premium if humans freedoms are restricted in their day to day life. Everyone has their price and to give up your freedom outside of work hours would be a high price to many.
I don't think the guest analogy is really that watertight.
Is the plumber who comes to fix my toilet a guest while he remains in my home?
No, he's someone being paid to remain there because he has skills that are needed.
As long as expats are employed and providing economic activity in Qatar, I don't think it's fair to say that they are 'guests'.
LP wrote: "We are professionals who sell their skills. And our skills are needed"
That's only true within the boundaries of your employer premises. At Aspire park, you mistakenly "think" that you are contract-free, as those skills are useless there.
You signed a contract with your employer on skills/work details, however, you did not sign any contract on adhering to cultural norms. What if that portion becomes required within all employment contacts? mmmmm
To make that clear: we are NOT guests here! We are professionals who sell their skills. And our skills are needed. Once we are done, we go. Guests? It makes me laugh with disgust how words are misused all the time.
What kind of host is this who lets his guests work? If you were my guest, I would do everything for you. But maybe that's my culture!!
Good morning translator, hope you have a great day!In order NOT to go into wrong direction, I forgot to inform you that people running thru Aspirepark are allowed to show their legs, well, strange, isnt it,only walkers are not allowed to wear shorts, even more ridiculous but a sign it does NOT have anything to do with culture and by the way guests would like to have a nice host!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
why is that muslim people all around the world gets mad if they are restricted to wear Hajeb or abbaya in european countries? and why expat here in Qatar are not allowed to complain? if a expat complain locals will say go back were you came from.
yes yes I know Islam is the correct religion but how about us who just want to have a little freedom?
Thank you Missteacher, I meant expats indeed. But I used that term purposely to remind all that we are merely guests to this neighborhood.
avengers101 : I was just being sarcastic (:
A little known fact about me: I have dark sense of humor.
you gave me this idea last night you wrote this:
How about NO HEJAB! on Western lands, and No strolling around in Abayas, and all forms of Arabian/middle Eastern traditional attires on the streets of London, NY, Toronto and Sydney *_* uh uhuh
so explain me this one and I might listen to you cause Im a open minded person I learn from others. im not a close minded person who are not willing to learn and be steady/dull forever
When you say guest/guestess I asssume you mean expats? If so I would call myself a resident as I have a resident permit for the next 5years at least.
THis is a completely separate issue with the P.D.A in the carwash. While we are on that subject however, I feel the laws/cultural prefences with this are strange in some countries too. Now I would be shouting "get a room" to people who are all over each other inappropriately. However, not being able to hold your partners hand in the shopping malls comfortably or give them a hug/kiss on the cheek is annoying.
However, as I am a resident in a middle eastern country I respect the culture and get on with my life...living by their rules.
avengers101:] don’t get your facts twisted over here.
Muslim ppl around the world didn’t just land in those countries from out of space! They are native citizens of those countries...
MissTeacher, True, but as I pointed out, some continue to push the line. For example, around 6 pm yesterday I was at the Abu Hamour petrol station, a "guest" and a blond "guestess" decided to show their affection gestures publicly between traffic-jammed cars within the station area. Do you think romance get triggered by the noise of car washing jet hoses?
Such people are trouble seekers, perhaps ignorant, but cannot eliminate all other reasons.
NO offense but I dont think anyone in their right mind would walk about the shopping malls or streets in bikini's.
Missteacher wrote: "(before anyone jumps on the band wagon; im not talking about people walking about in bikini's)"
You are right. But from the other prospective, the host may feel that the line should be drawn at 3/4 shorts, before it becomes necessary to draw it at the bikini level.
IN a perfect world people would be able to wear what the feel comfortable in, in any country and its sad this is not and probably never will be the case.
Non-Muslims all over the world should be able to show knees, and shoulders if they want. (before anyone jumps on the band wagon; im not talking about people walking about in bikini's).
Muslims all over the world should be able to wear abaya, hijab and niqab if they want.
Kleene wrote: "my impression and it is ridiculous because long shorts do NOT have anything to do with your culture"
You just made my point even clearer Kleene. People come and attempt to tinker with the culture of their host.
It is none of your business, or privilege for that matter, to ridicule or challenge what the official at Aspire is asking the park attendance to do.
Let me make it clear. My stand on this is pointed to a very small percentage of expats who enjoy the challenge and always push the line back. Unfortunately, those who get the attention, and fuel the backlash.
Briexpat, the comment above from Kleene explain why always people cannot stay and discuss the issue within Qatar. Kleene talks about Europe, about an incident he encountered in Qatar.
first-I am NOT getting paid in this country and work here,second I always worked in an international multicultural team in Europe and NEVER ever had any problems with religion or other issues!!!!You are crossing the line, I only wrote the truth and my impression and it is ridiculous because long shorts do NOT have anything to do with your culture even all others confirm this, looks like you stand alone with your extreme opinion, enjoy!!!!!
I have never been to Aspire. Why the hell should I go there at all. It's just another Disney Land. Or can you do something serious there? Pole vault jump, for example? As an "expat" I go to the desert, to the beach, and I enjoy the sun. The rest of the "amenities" are bought, imported, and bad copies!
We invited these workers to come and although we want them to show respect to us we can't expect them to be like us. Tolerance needs to be shown as demonstrated by our wise leadership.
If we are talking about refugees why is it that the western countries give Palenstian refugees citizenship and a chance to lead a normal life when their Arab brothers in the GCC consistently deny them citizenship and in fact discriminate against them.
I think it's possible that the generation of Qataris in education now will shape Qatar the way they want it by 2012. And I think that will be different to the current generation that are constantly changing their mind about what is and is not acceptable.
The Pearl and Aspire rules and regulations are examples of the internal struggle the current government must be experiencing.
another monumentous malfunction in the "ärse elbow location department"!
I am wondering how the Qatar is going to face & tackle the cultural revolution which will be a part of 2022 WC. Rather than getting ready to face the changes / challenges, the country is still trying to impose out of the date rules & regulations, such as this Aspire situation.
I guess I will be there till 2022, 'coz I would love to see how this traditional society, is going to mix with the new world culture.
ok since freedom is prohibited and to avoid violent reply i edited my comment. and I want to make up the thing I have said:
Qatar is a beautiful country, more beautiful than norway and Switzerland
Qatar service is the best specially Karwa and the internet connection
Qatari people are easy to talk to
Qatar beaches is the best, and because Qatar is the richest country in the world its hard for them to make decent beaches.
Qatar is a fun place to be specially for kids cause this country is so fun and exciting. Families wont get bored.
Qatar road is the safest and if you see a Land cruiser we must move aside and give them way
Amazing where we started and where we ended up .. Is it possible to get back to the topic or shall we discuss immigration in Europe ?
avengers101, laws enacted lately in France for example are not against Muslim travelers, they are to be enforced on muslim CITIZENS of France. I am afraid that too many are not aware that Islam is s fast growing religion in the west, and the trend indicate that the traditional religion of the west may no longer be the majority in 50 yrs or less.
avengers101: will you leave Muslims out of this. thank you very much!
My family also faced the same, it is strange to say that one qatari young lady told us you people with this dress not allowed to enter here, either by traditional dress or by PT dress, atlast one qatari man came and escaped us from her and allowed to enter the play area. Actually now lot of qatari womens are coming for job. But they don't have exposure to outside experineces and making too much problem for other people. In workplace also they are the same. If you want to enforce a law, better thing is through these ladies. There is no question against them. What they said is said. So please higher authorities, train them to understand others problems before they hold the positions like intractions with common peoples.
Translator, sorry, I did disgress from the topic.
Of course Aspire should do what they feel is right. It is, frankly, none of my concern.
nomerci, you are circumventing the point and avoiding the conflict. The Aspire authority is not "talking " in order to achieve cultural harmony, rather they want things to be obied.
corcaoich : the answer is very simple. FREEDOM!
NM: Just kiddin :P
Well on a more serious note. It doesn't need a genius figure out that this a very much closed and pre-defined culture, here excessive reaveling of skin (cleavages, belly buttons, and thighs here is deeply offensive to locals. Also some people fear that the relaxing of local dress here amongst some females with high heels and tight pants is showing through the traditional Abayas and with Lady-Gaga heavy make up and head coverings slipping back further and further back.
Many are starting to get worried here that unwanted aspects of Western morals and liberalism is creeping on the next generations.
I believe that's what's UP!
Refugees are accepted in Western countries because of a well remembered history of persecution now codified into international law. This is respected fitfully, it always amazes me how refugees can pass through multiple countries where they qualify under International Law for refuge in favour of the West. Why go to Britain, Italy France etc. From Afhghanistan when asylum is available in the closest countries in Iran, Pakistan, Uzbekistan etc.when you have a right to claim asylum in these countries?
WHY IS THERE A PERCEPTION THAT ONLY AMERICA AND EUROPE, RICHER COUNTRIES ONLY, CAN PROVIDE EFFECTIVE ASYLUM TO OPPRESSED PEOPLE?
Qatar has a good position in accepting people who were facing oppression in their own countries.
It is sad that people feel oppressed in wearing shorts, the Prophet decreed that it was permissible for men to visit the Mesjid (Mosque) to pray providing they were covered only from the waist to the knee, where did this intlerance come from?
Translator, that is exactly the point! Once people get to know each other, get to actually talk to each other, it is highly likely that there will be better understanding and therefore respect from both sides.
Marco, say what?
I don't care what anybody wears.
Also I am very happy with my own clothes, no jealousy at all.:)
Men should cover their thighs is what's required as per Islam. So, if covering the shin is a culture thing, why impose it on expats?
NM: if you are very jealous that women are wearing such long clothes then please do look out for another place to live as there are a lot of places out there :P
How about NO HEJAB! on Western lands, and No strolling around in Abayas, and all forms of Arabian/middle Eastern traditional attires on the streets of London, NY, Toronto and Sydney *_* uh uhuh
Mentoring !! The Aspire management enforcing cultural requirements just to be publicly and fully rediculed and challenged. How well optional mentoring will be taking seriously?
Good suggestion, nomerci ... but as you said, quite unlikely.
Translator, that is yet another interesting statement.
What do Qataris find offensive when it comes to expat behaviour?
Some time ago I suggested that it would be a good idea for Qataris to "mentor" some expatriates. As you know, contact between Qataris and expatriates is not all that common, sadly, due to various reasons.
Now, I think many misconceptions could be avoided /bridged by mutual understanding...which can only happen through open minded contact.
What do you think?
Rude you say? I monitor arabic Qatari forums discussing expats offensive bahaviors, and trust me, I am a mile away from being rude in comparison.
most of the refugees have a direct relationship to their earlier colonial masters
Translator, I am in no way saying that those refugees are accepted not for a reason, mainly financial.
Still, the cultural aspect/influence stands.
And I am respecting people's intelligence. No reason for you to be rude:)
Please, show some respect to peoples' intelligence. Those refugees are accepted primarily for demographic reasons. The median age of population in the countries who are accepting refugees are close to 40 yrs, and getting worse by the year. The refugees are needed, and we all know that they are not welcomed.
Kleene said "Qatar wants to make life harder and more unpleasant to expatriates, we feel quite discriminated"
This is crossing the line Kleene. Please always remember that you are a mere guest to this country. You agreed to work and get paid, and have no say whatsoever on how a culture should accept or deny your code of behavior.
Complains like these keep the people hosting us on the defensive.
Translator, many in Europe are too. They are called refugees though.
Qatar does have the better cards compared to Europe though, they are refusing to give citizenship...as of now.
Nice try nomerci, but not good enough. The comparison is not valid. We are here not as "immigrants" or "citizens" as those you are referring to in Europe. We are temporary guests.
Translator, very interesting statement.
Maybe something that should be applied and enforced in ,for example, Europe.
I like this!
Have not been there for a year, last time I went it was simply to dirty with trash everywhere.
so swimfins drinking alcohol makes me a bad person, oh plz grow up, and btw who tells u i care about drinking it is the idea of having some freedom and then removing it!
3/4 shorts have been known to cause infectious diseases and encourage the locals to turn gay that western disease. Qatar will rid the world of gays before 2022 so do not worry.
Why you want alcohol be good person and dont drink it .
seems to be a trend in the country these days, no alcohol at the pearl, no English in schools, now restrictions on aspire park visitors...
Cry to 2022 ^_^ People Became fat & ill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! result of no Practice Sports which cause by rare & limit play grounds around.
I never thought women could get offended or on the other hand turned-on looking at men's calf muscles..
In the past we came quite often to the Aspire Park the only green area around, but we do feel sorry for all those ducks and geese they do not have a big enough shelter/island where they would be safe, esp. on Fridays when there are many people around they suffer a lot and have much stress, some people do not know how to treat animals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!